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PostPosted: 26 May 2021, 06:50 
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Yes I was watching Brett train a very good player add some no drift to his forehand. Brett would say good to some shots and not good to some other shots. The funny think I could not see any difference to the backswing at all. It subtle and hard to see.

I did ask the guy training how he found adding no drift to his shots and he said is was very powerful.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2021, 09:49 
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maurice101 wrote:
Yes I was watching Brett train a very good player add some no drift to his forehand. Brett would say good to some shots and not good to some other shots. The funny think I could not see any difference to the backswing at all. It subtle and hard to see.

I did ask the guy training how he found adding no drift to his shots and he said is was very powerful.


Brett actually moves the racket forward a little on the backswing. I'm not sure if I can do that but I'm getting more spin just from keeping things more still (we'll call this less drift) on average. I haven't played TT in like 5 months but it's cool to come back to something new to tinker with.


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PostPosted: 28 May 2021, 13:25 
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Brett Clarke wrote:
Dr.Pivot wrote:
I have been working on my BH vs. backspin a bit too. I really like how @chopblock can keep his arm structure firm against backspin. I have a tendency to collapse my arm structure when facing heavy spin and I am afraid it causes inconsistency under pressure.

BTW, I am playing with Mercury II on my BH now.



This shot reminds me of Samsonov in this video https://youtu.be/Xn10X3T2Lug?t=54 So how bad can it be?

I would however encourage you to adopt a more static and stable elbow position so can start behind the ball and quickly whip your wrist/fingers down and up as the ball is closer to you. This means you'll have a more consistent swing. And yes, it would result in a much shorter swing.


I will try to keep my arm structure more firm. But I also need to play a couple of BH-oriented matches. I have not done this since returning to actively playing. Maybe my BH is not that bad after all.

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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2021, 14:57 
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Great video showing anti drift and the backswing as the body is going forwards and down. Just as Brett teaches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4QnUpQybcg&t=109s


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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2021, 15:06 
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maurice101 wrote:
Yes I was watching Brett train a very good player add some no drift to his forehand. Brett would say good to some shots and not good to some other shots. The funny think I could not see any difference to the backswing at all. It subtle and hard to see.

I did ask the guy training how he found adding no drift to his shots and he said is was very powerful.


So... let's see. You add "no drift" to the shots rather than remove "drift"? :lol: I've got a lot of catching up to do, since I'm not sure what "drift" or "no drift" is in the first place..

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 00:29 
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iskandar taib wrote:
maurice101 wrote:
Yes I was watching Brett train a very good player add some no drift to his forehand. Brett would say good to some shots and not good to some other shots. The funny think I could not see any difference to the backswing at all. It subtle and hard to see.

I did ask the guy training how he found adding no drift to his shots and he said is was very powerful.


So... let's see. You add "no drift" to the shots rather than remove "drift"? :lol: I've got a lot of catching up to do, since I'm not sure what "drift" or "no drift" is in the first place..

Iskandar


The way I think about it is to not let your arm drift back with your body which can lead to accidentally backswinging too early. For the FH, drift would be like backswinging as the hips are turning back to put your weight on to your right leg (for a rightie). This is what you shouldn't do. The arm will naturally move with the body but this isn't a backswing. Anti-drift is to help if you are mistiming the backswing. For the serve it could therefore be useful to first move the forearm/wrist forward so that you don't drift back and start the backswing too early - but it can also help give extra racket head speed. If you have your arm completely still it might be a bit more difficult to get momentum into the backswing which the body then uses for forward momentum for the forward swing.

I'm also thinking the only conscious things you're doing with your arm/forearm/wrist is to either backswing or do the anti-drift motion (forward movement before the backswing). As the arm is backswinging the body does the rest and the arm follows with no conscious control. The backswing stuff has really helped me. It made me realize how it's possible to do everything right with the body - but if the backswing is mistimed that body movement won't add much.

Correct me if I'm on the wrong track Brett :)


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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2021, 09:58 
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Quote:
So... let's see. You add "no drift" to the shots rather than remove "drift"? :lol: I've got a lot of catching up to do, since I'm not sure what "drift" or "no drift" is in the first place..

Iskandar


This is my take on this. I think Richfs is spot on with his post.

Drift, no drift and anti drift is easier to see on a forehand serve as there is less body rotation to confuse things.

No Drift is where you hold the bat stationary as your body goes back for the forehand serve.
Anti drift is where your bat goes forward as the body goes back. Timo serve on the video above does this.

Drift is where the bat goes back as the body goes back. Most club players in my club do this.

It gets more complicated for the forehand as the body is rotating more.
If the bat is held stationary as the body is rotating back, I think that is anti drift as the arm has to come forward as the body is rotating back to cause this to happen. Timo does this on his forehand.

Delaying the swing a bit as you rotate back is harder to spot, and I think of this as no drift. Ma long does this type of swing.

Maybe Brett can discuss the differences?


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 05:12 
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This whole drift talk is interesting, but it's really just making sure you get lots of racket speed on the point of contact. "drifting" just means your beginning the swing too early, sometimes far too early. One could even drift, un-drift (lol) and serve as well as Timo. Basically Just watch your bat on video and make sure your whipping into the ball, which means starting the actual whip a lot later than most players do. It's an important technique/lesson to note on the serve when you start putting your body into the shot.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 06:53 
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Another point of the drift discussion is that the delay allows a high racket speed back into the whip pattern. Brett mentioned to me an old Chinese coach told him to have high racket speed in the backswing before the forward swing.

The no drift idea is the mechanism for this to occur.

This really applies to the serve. Bretts serve whip is really short, fast and whippy, hard to read and spiny.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 08:53 
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maurice101 wrote:
Another point of the drift discussion is that the delay


It isn't delay, it's just making sure it's happening at the right time.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 09:26 
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Here's my latest BH against backspin from yesterday evening:


Here's my backhand vs one backspin and one topspin


I sent some footage to Brett a while ago and have been working on it a fair bit, here it definitely feels better than it ever has before.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 14:51 
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Richfs, I like the crack on the ball when you opening up against backspin.
Its a great shot. I think you are using your body well.
For some improvement I think you could add some no drift in the backswing.
I think there is pause at the end of the backswing reducing the quality of the whip.
Look at 22 seconds in the video. Its like you are waiting for the ball to come to you at the end of the backswing.
I think you could add 10% racket speed if you added no drift and eliminated the pause.
Just my take on your stroke.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 22:30 
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maurice101 wrote:
Richfs, I like the crack on the ball when you opening up against backspin.
Its a great shot. I think you are using your body well.
For some improvement I think you could add some no drift in the backswing.
I think there is pause at the end of the backswing reducing the quality of the whip.
Look at 22 seconds in the video. Its like you are waiting for the ball to come to you at the end of the backswing.
I think you could add 10% racket speed if you added no drift and eliminated the pause.
Just my take on your stroke.


Thanks Maurice!

I'll give it a go! It's often tempting to let the arm go back and backswing before it's time. I also think I can bow a bit more when I compare to the better players.. but in my mind here I'm bowing as low as I can.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 23:06 
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Richfs wrote:
Here's my latest BH against backspin from yesterday evening:


Here's my backhand vs one backspin and one topspin


I sent some footage to Brett a while ago and have been working on it a fair bit, here it definitely feels better than it ever has before.


I'd really enjoy seeing you do the same drill but with your partner feeding the first backspin ball with his bh and then blocking the second ball. That would be realistic spin returned, and timing and everything.

Not saying that is necessarily a good way for you to be training it at this stage, only that it would be fascinating to see it done that way.

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2021, 23:31 
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BRS wrote:
Richfs wrote:
Here's my latest BH against backspin from yesterday evening:


Here's my backhand vs one backspin and one topspin


I sent some footage to Brett a while ago and have been working on it a fair bit, here it definitely feels better than it ever has before.


I'd really enjoy seeing you do the same drill but with your partner feeding the first backspin ball with his bh and then blocking the second ball. That would be realistic spin returned, and timing and everything.

Not saying that is necessarily a good way for you to be training it at this stage, only that it would be fascinating to see it done that way.


You are absolutely killing the backspin only feed. Is that really how you want to play a BH opener vs push? I mean, it's beautiful, don't let me bring you down. I'm only sort of curious about your training mentality. Like is this exercise designed to expand your range of power, so the point is exactly to murder an easy ball? Or if your goal is to take this work into match play, would it be better to have more spin and safety and give up some speed? That's kind of why I was interested in seeing the second drill with a block in between, because the ball would be on you again quite fast (and flat) at the speed you were playing it.

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