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PostPosted: 20 May 2022, 11:42 
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chopblock wrote:
Dr.Pivot wrote:
Apart from power, what are your thoughts on developing touch on the BH loop, i.e. the ability to adapt to different heights/lengths/speed/spin? I guess it is impossible to train, just play a ton of practice matches and make sure you use your BH. But maybe I am missing something.


i guess you could train it with the following drill to some extent. you serve short (backspin, no-spin, sidespin, topspin, back-side, etc.), your partner plays to your BH (mostly a long push, but could also be a flick or a chiquita), you play a BH topspin and then you play out the point (it could be completely free or you could ask your partner to hit only to your BH). this way your partner could practice reading spin and receiving and you are likely to face different heights/length/speed/spin.

how is your BH project going? i plan to do something similar (probably next year).


That is what I do most of the time. Except I do it in a match setting and not a drill since I don't train as much nowadays. Just use nearly the same serve over and over that yields a predictable long push to BH, then open up & play out the point. Currently, I am trying to learn how to place my openings in different places, e.g. down the line or to the elbow. Previously I played 100% cross-court.

Also trying to improve my change of direction to down-the-line during a diagonal BH-BH exchange. Does anyone have any idea what is the proper technique for doing it? I usually play a kind of BH fade, but it lacks consistency. So I don't know if going with a sidespin loop in this situation is the right thing to do. Although sometimes it gets the job done.

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PostPosted: 20 May 2022, 20:24 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
Also trying to improve my change of direction to down-the-line during a diagonal BH-BH exchange. Does anyone have any idea what is the proper technique for doing it? I usually play a kind of BH fade, but it lacks consistency. So I don't know if going with a sidespin loop in this situation is the right thing to do. Although sometimes it gets the job done.


https://youtu.be/fFxcK5p5lX0

In this video (it's heavily edited -- it only contains my points and i use it as a highlight video before tournaments), i hit a few decent BH topspins down the line, but I don't know if it's the proper technique. i guess i turn my body slightly to the left such that it faces towards the direction of the FH corner of my practice partner and then i play my usual BH topspin vs block.

I saw a more detailed explanation in a youtube video some time ago. i'll try to find it tomorrow.


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PostPosted: 20 May 2022, 21:40 
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Dr.Pivot wrote:
Apart from power, what are your thoughts on developing touch on the BH loop, i.e. the ability to adapt to different heights/lengths/speed/spin? I guess it is impossible to train, just play a ton of practice matches and make sure you use your BH. But maybe I am missing something.


It seems really really possible to train? Like have someone feed you multiball and change the height/length/speed/spin on every ball. If you wanted to be more point-like they could feed one backspin and then a few flat or topspin and repeat.

Playing matches is a hard way to train backhand if your backhand is weak and you are mostly a forehand player. At least it didn't work for me. Your game is probably set up to create patterns where you play forehand, and since you are covering 75%+ of the table with forehand there just aren't enough reps.

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PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 10:23 
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This is the video I mentioned earlier. A German coach provides some advice on how to play the BH down the line from around 4-8 mins.

https://youtu.be/h_QHTCdCUbI?t=234


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PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 11:03 
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Quote:
This is the video I mentioned earlier. A German coach provides some advice on how to play the BH down the line from around 4-8 mins.


The other factor that the coach does not mention is the use of his hips. Look at how his right hip comes more forward to support the down the line shot.

I think Harimoto does something similar to go down the line.


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PostPosted: 22 May 2022, 05:06 
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chopblock wrote:
This is the video I mentioned earlier. A German coach provides some advice on how to play the BH down the line from around 4-8 mins.

https://youtu.be/h_QHTCdCUbI?t=234


Thank you for the link! Looks like fading the ball is the way to go.

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PostPosted: 22 May 2022, 23:16 
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BRS wrote:
Dr.Pivot wrote:
Apart from power, what are your thoughts on developing touch on the BH loop, i.e. the ability to adapt to different heights/lengths/speed/spin? I guess it is impossible to train, just play a ton of practice matches and make sure you use your BH. But maybe I am missing something.


It seems really really possible to train? Like have someone feed you multiball and change the height/length/speed/spin on every ball. If you wanted to be more point-like they could feed one backspin and then a few flat or topspin and repeat.

Playing matches is a hard way to train backhand if your backhand is weak and you are mostly a forehand player. At least it didn't work for me. Your game is probably set up to create patterns where you play forehand, and since you are covering 75%+ of the table with forehand there just aren't enough reps.



Agree

I sometimes do a single ball drill working on early, middle, late, middle, timing.
Move in an out as needed. Adapt for backhand.
Players at my club not that interested in multi ball training at this time.


Last edited by ckwsp101 on 23 May 2022, 23:47, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 23 May 2022, 12:24 
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I agree with this idea too. I just finished a session of multi ball backspin on my backhand. The guy multi balling was not that good at it, so the balls had different degrees of spin, depth and pace. I was able to put over 90% on the table which was the best I have ever done.


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PostPosted: 26 May 2022, 12:36 
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I think that having match-like training for BH is a huge asset. But regardless of your training regime, you must use your BH a lot in matches before it starts really working when it counts. Otherwise, it is not going to work. I have done it for years: practicing my BH against mostly standard shots and wondering why it lets me down in matchplay. Of course, my technique sucked, but even when I improved it a lot with the help of Brett and this thread, I still could not use my BH as a reliable weapon. But after I started to play a very BH-oriented game in practice matches a couple of months ago, I am finally observing some gains. At least now I open up down-the-line sometimes, or to the elbow. And beat some folks in BH-BH exchanges close to the table that I could only defeat before with my A game.

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PostPosted: 05 Jun 2022, 19:54 
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Hello everyone!

I am finally back to playing some tt and trying to train a bit, here are some short matchplay videos of where I am currently and would really appreciate some feedback and criticism:

https://youtu.be/FqFtXIX5Ch8

https://youtu.be/XttBdCfdJ20

Struggling quite a bit, I am mostly an underdog against my opponents who figured out how to play me, they mostly feed me half long serves and pushes that I struggle to hit strongly (and whiff quite a bit of them ) and then I get blocked and countered to death and I am to slow to react.

Not really sure what to work on mostly at this stage, so any advice is super appreciated !


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PostPosted: 06 Jun 2022, 03:30 
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I'm not going to comment on technique, but in terms of strategy, a few simple changes would make your loop less predictable.

One, you always seem to go cross court on your loop against the half long push. You definitely want to vary your placement by going down the line and to the middle. I had a similar issue where my opponents would cheat to the crosscourt side for their blocks and so I started mixing up my placement a lot more to keep them honest. This also made my my down-the-line loop a lot more consistent over time since I used it much more.

Second, mix up the speed and depth of your loop. Mix up a slow spinny loop at times and change the depth of the loop. It can be difficult for your opponents to return your loop if it was less predictable.

Third, incorporate side spin loops at time. These are difficult to block because of the side spin and generally win me easy points.

A big positive side effect of all this variation is that it'll make your loop much more diverse and consistent over time.


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PostPosted: 06 Jun 2022, 17:34 
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I feel you could work on your footwork. An exercise I have found very effective to develop footwork is to do a backhand against easy multi ball. Do a mini hop between shots. Then 2 mini hops. You can also do this on a forehand counterhit.

If you do this regularly you will find your movement changes to having the feet rooted to the ground between shots to be much more fluid and dynamic. The women pros are always moving their feet!


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PostPosted: 06 Jun 2022, 23:24 
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Barfly wrote:
Hello everyone!

I am finally back to playing some tt and trying to train a bit, here are some short matchplay videos of where I am currently and would really appreciate some feedback and criticism:

https://youtu.be/FqFtXIX5Ch8

https://youtu.be/XttBdCfdJ20

Struggling quite a bit, I am mostly an underdog against my opponents who figured out how to play me, they mostly feed me half long serves and pushes that I struggle to hit strongly (and whiff quite a bit of them ) and then I get blocked and countered to death and I am to slow to react.

Not really sure what to work on mostly at this stage, so any advice is super appreciated !


I am pretty much in the same boat (being blocked out most of the time), so it is hard for me to give advice.

But I would actually embrace half-long pushes & serves. IMHO they can be a goldmine, especially heavy ones. Since they are usually slow, you can potentially make an insanely heavy loop that has almost no speed. If done well, it is almost unreturnable. It is the ones that fast and land on the white line that I personally hate. They are difficult to spin heavy and have speed themselves. So the resulting loop will have speed and probably not as much spin and is easier to block.

So I would just work on spinning the hell out of half-long balls. Playing with a sticky rubber (you use Rakza Z?) helps.

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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2022, 12:33 
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Barfly wrote:
Hello everyone!

I am finally back to playing some tt and trying to train a bit, here are some short matchplay videos of where I am currently and would really appreciate some feedback and criticism:

https://youtu.be/FqFtXIX5Ch8

https://youtu.be/XttBdCfdJ20

Struggling quite a bit, I am mostly an underdog against my opponents who figured out how to play me, they mostly feed me half long serves and pushes that I struggle to hit strongly (and whiff quite a bit of them ) and then I get blocked and countered to death and I am to slow to react.

Not really sure what to work on mostly at this stage, so any advice is super appreciated !


You have many of the usual adult learner issues but that is neither here nor there. I think you are playing way too fast and trying to do too much to the ball since you don't step back after your first loop and you go for a lot on your first/opening loops in terms of where the arm ends up.

One of the things that helped my overall game in some ways (and hurt it in others) was that I started out primarily as a blocker since I played close to the table. My looping and topspin game came later, but I learned to just touch the ball and move the looper around and if I could control the attacks, I could beat players up to say 1700 or 1800 just by blocking if their first loop didn't bother me. You need to develop that countering game with some smaller strokes so you can rally after the first shot. It helps you go for less and helps you set up points, especially if your opponent attacks into your blocks. Get comfortable rallying with the block - it does wonders for your confidence.

All that said, I suspect that the video highlights may not be representative. But I am just giving the advice that I think is relevant. It may well not be.

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PostPosted: 07 Jun 2022, 20:55 
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