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PostPosted: 05 Sep 2022, 10:55 
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chopblock wrote:
NextLevel wrote:
Your stroke looks good now since you are now hitting through the ball. I find that for hitting strokes I get more stability if I use my elbow on part to guide the path of the stroke. I can use the wrist to hit a bit harder but it is a bit harder to control so I am a bit more careful with it.

I was an inverted hitter when I started TT so a lot of this resonates with me. Some of the subtle differences are in quality of pips but overall you are on the right path.


Thanks for the feedback!

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I hate the internet.


Sorry, I don't understand this in the context of the subsequent feedback, but maybe it's an isolated statement?


I wrote a longer comment and removed the long quote but lost it when my phone had a really quick timeout. :headbang: So I had to settle with the shorter one you read.

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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 15:14 
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One of the few decent practice matches with short pips so far. The other player used short pips on the FH (black) and inverted on the BH. She used both SP and inverted for her serves. Receiving is difficult in general and for me with short pips in particular. I need to practice receiving more, especially lifting the ball with a bit of topspin. In addition, I find blocking with SP more difficult so far. The ball often doesn't clear the net. I guess I am too late and the racquet angle is too closed, e.g. the rally starting at 0:42.

I tried serving long to her BH most of the time (no-spin or topspin) in an effort to practice hitting my BH aggressively, which worked reasonably well.

https://youtu.be/lH_li_2Ylaw


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PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 21:59 
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Nice match.

Your block at ~ 3:05 was close to perfect.

And you won all but one point where you made a clean hit with your pips. Either she didn't touch the ball, or she dumped them in the net over and over. The bh diagonal was definitely to your advantage.

The trouble receiving long serves with pips is a weakness of the equipment. Receiving long flat fast serves with pips is difficult. It's amazing how few people seem to know and take advantage of this. My suggestion is not to try to do too much with those serves. Try to put the ball back in an awkward spot, whether that is down the fh line or at the elbow. Lots of people assume a diagonal receive and step around to play fhs, in which case even a lousy ball to their fh is hard for them. If someone is killing you with that serve you can also anticipate it and step around to play your own fh. If you succeed the first two times it often takes that serve away from them for the rest of the match.

Short serves are crazy easy to flip with moristo. I'm not sure you got any short serves in this match. Do you have problems receiving those too?

To no surprise you are still playing with a mostly double-inverted, fh-dominant style. Like the way you stand for one. If you decide to keep SP on your bh then there are a lot of aspects of your game that will have to change to really make it all work together. Like I am still deep in the process I call de-Frankensteining and I've had sp for 4 years (-1 for 2020 but still).

To end on a fun note: try a serve that another moristo user taught me. serve bh with the pips, completely dead, short or half-long and low down your opponents wide fh line. Many people will gently push this ball right back along your bh. That receive will be high and short, calmly and easily hit it off their bh side while they are still trying to get back out from under the table. If people know how to handle this it absolutely fails. But since they never see it, most people up to usatt 2000 seem bamboozled.

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2022, 10:25 
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Not quite relevant but seems the CNT has a young short pips penholder with RPB-inverted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3czWRGcbXs

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2022, 11:45 
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NextLevel wrote:
Not quite relevant but seems the CNT has a young short pips penholder with RPB-inverted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3czWRGcbXs


Short pips representing well so far.

https://youtu.be/npfzpaKVI5A

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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2022, 15:49 
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BRS wrote:

The trouble receiving long serves with pips is a weakness of the equipment. Receiving long flat fast serves with pips is difficult. It's amazing how few people seem to know and take advantage of this. My suggestion is not to try to do too much with those serves. Try to put the ball back in an awkward spot, whether that is down the fh line or at the elbow. Lots of people assume a diagonal receive and step around to play fhs, in which case even a lousy ball to their fh is hard for them. If someone is killing you with that serve you can also anticipate it and step around to play your own fh. If you succeed the first two times it often takes that serve away from them for the rest of the match.


Thanks. That's very good to know! Acquiring just this piece of information makes it worthwhile having changed to SP, even if it turns out to be for a few months.

I played against Miyashita earlier this year. In that match I only made one receive error when she served to my BH in 3 sets. The patterns were different. When we got into a BH to BH exchange she was playing more aggressively than me, but she made a lot of mistakes (possibly because it was the first match and she hadn't warmed up properly).

BRS wrote:
Short serves are crazy easy to flip with moristo. I'm not sure you got any short serves in this match. Do you have problems receiving those too?


It's definitely easier to receive short serves with the SP. As you said it's easy to flip short serves with Moristo, which I mostly tried in doubles matches where it's even easier. That said I can play higher quality shots with inverted, which is not surprising.

BRS wrote:
To end on a fun note: try a serve that another moristo user taught me. serve bh with the pips, completely dead, short or half-long and low down your opponents wide fh line. Many people will gently push this ball right back along your bh. That receive will be high and short, calmly and easily hit it off their bh side while they are still trying to get back out from under the table. If people know how to handle this it absolutely fails. But since they never see it, most people up to usatt 2000 seem bamboozled.


Thanks! I'll try it. It was my goto serve (with inverted) when facing a strong opponent who can loop anything that is outright long or drifts long. It's the serve that I can keep reliably short and which is difficult to Chiquita imo.

BRS wrote:
To no surprise you are still playing with a mostly double-inverted, fh-dominant style. Like the way you stand for one. If you decide to keep SP on your bh then there are a lot of aspects of your game that will have to change to really make it all work together. Like I am still deep in the process I call de-Frankensteining and I've had sp for 4 years (-1 for 2020 but still).


Do you mean how I stand when receiving or in general?

I wonder if emulating Tomi's BH (see video below) would be more effective. He uses inverted and has a punchy BH hit (e.g. at 0:46, 1:32, 3:11, 3:23).

https://youtu.be/hdPp5wgUX-E


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PostPosted: 08 Sep 2022, 21:38 
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I meant in general you stand fh dominant, but especially to receive. But maybe it doesn't matter and you should disregard my comment. Choi Hyojoo is playing very well at the Contender in Muscat and her style is bigly fh dominant lefty.

vs Polcanova https://youtu.be/npfzpaKVI5A

Choi played even better this morning against a minor Chinese player, just watched it live and enjoyed thoroughly. She steps around her backhand at every opportunity. Way too athletic for me to play, but it obviously works. And even this opponent who for sure knows how to play against pips, still missed a lot of balls in the net, or mis-timed and hit edges. It's just the contrast from one ball to the next is so much, even if you know perfectly well how it works.

I can't wait to see her play Pesotska tomorrow in the quarters. Pesotska spanked Manika Batra so for sure long pips don't trouble her. We'll see about short.

About the other guy's bh hit, I'm sort of down on the idea of copying anybody. For me it gets to be a problem because I'm thinking about copying something but maybe the ball is different, and the guy (or more often girl) I want to copy wouldn't have played it the way I imagine. It's just so tricky. Like in the other forum Lula said I should get more spin out of closing my elbow on fhs. But watching CHJ, she keeps her elbow fixed on counter topspin close to the table, but has a big range of motion further from the table or on easier balls. Everything is so context-dependent.

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PostPosted: 13 Sep 2022, 09:01 
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BRS wrote:
About the other guy's bh hit, I'm sort of down on the idea of copying anybody. For me it gets to be a problem because I'm thinking about copying something but maybe the ball is different, and the guy (or more often girl) I want to copy wouldn't have played it the way I imagine. It's just so tricky. Like in the other forum Lula said I should get more spin out of closing my elbow on fhs. But watching CHJ, she keeps her elbow fixed on counter topspin close to the table, but has a big range of motion further from the table or on easier balls. Everything is so context-dependent.


I agree with this to a certain extent. Many people try to copy the stroke of player A or try to model their game based on another player's game, e.g. Dan of TTDaily tried to copy Franziska's BH and you mentioned that you would like to play similar to the girl you met during training camp. Imo, this can be useful. Of course, it's impossible to get a carbon copy and we adjust based on what we feel comfortable with. In addition, as you said, it depends on the context of the rally, i.e. "form follows function."

BRS wrote:
Choi played even better this morning against a minor Chinese player, just watched it live and enjoyed thoroughly. She steps around her backhand at every opportunity. Way too athletic for me to play, but it obviously works. And even this opponent who for sure knows how to play against pips, still missed a lot of balls in the net, or mis-timed and hit edges. It's just the contrast from one ball to the next is so much, even if you know perfectly well how it works.


Choi performed very well during the Contender! Encouraging to see that her FH dominant style works with the short pips BH. My game will most likely remain FH dominant, but hopefully it won't be as extreme as before coupled with improvements in the BH.

Anyway, I enjoy the process of this project and plan to stick with it until the end of the year. It's fun to attempt figuring out what works better and what is more difficult with the SP (below is my short list so far).

- Receiving long, fast, flat serves seems to be more difficult.
- Receiving short serves seems to be easier.
- Initially, I found blocking more difficult, but it depends on who I play against.

I only play round robin tournament where I am guaranteed to play 4 matches -- sometimes it can be 5 or 6. My current style (lots of pivoting and a tendency to play far from the table) involves a lot of running and I often run out of steam by match 4. With the SP and playing closer to the table, I might be able to conserve my energy better, but that remains to be seen.


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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2022, 21:25 
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I practiced various things today. Happy with my flick, but I am not getting back into position quickly enough. I think I'll practice jumping back with both feet next time, which I saw on PechPong some time ago (Russ posted the link recently).

https://youtu.be/LUXEs1l1pbo (focus was on receiving a short serve to my BH)

https://youtu.be/id8o0KKv6Kw (focus was on BH block)

While watching another match I glimpsed a few points at the backend of the second set between Choi and Szocs. To my surprise, Choi had trouble receiving Szocs' tomahawk serve. I wonder why she didn't flick with her BH more often and instead pushed with her FH. But maybe those few points were not representative of the whole match.


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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2022, 12:44 
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To change the subject away from pimps.,I have been teaching my students the Chinese forehand. In my mind (Bretts too!) the power from this shot comes from a bent arm takeback and the opening of the arm which is totally relaxed in the forward swing. The Chinese take the arm back close to the body then let the arm rise a bit before the forward swing.

Any ideas why they do this?

What I realized from my students is that they have a too upright stance so the takeback does not go close to the body.
In my skiing I have the same issue of the weight too far back. What is suggested is to have the hands on the knees during the turn as an exercise.

We can apply this to a forehand topspin stroke. Have the left hand on the left knee for ALL of the stroke. This forces your body to stay low during rotation. We can also do this for a Hirimoto style backhand to force the body to go forward rather than up.

What do people think?


Last edited by maurice101 on 26 Sep 2022, 12:59, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2022, 12:47 
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Chopblock, when I had a lesson with Brett on the backhand flick he told me to start the stroke from the right hip with a closed bat angle. I feel you start the stroke too close to the ball. For heavy backspin go around the side of the ball where it has less spin. He also wanted me to get in early and let the body unfold from the waist to add more power. Hope this helps.

I suggest you join ttedge if you are not a member and sent short videos to Brett for feedback. I do this for all my students and Brett's knowledge is amazing. He teaches current up to date current technique that just about no one in Australia does at all.


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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2022, 16:27 
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maurice101 wrote:
Chopblock, when I had a lesson with Brett on the backhand flick he told me to start the stroke from the right hip with a closed bat angle. I feel you start the stroke too close to the ball. For heavy backspin go around the side of the ball where it has less spin. He also wanted me to get in early and let the body unfold from the waist to add more power. Hope this helps.

I suggest you join ttedge if you are not a member and sent short videos to Brett for feedback. I do this for all my students and Brett's knowledge is amazing. He teaches current up to date current technique that just about no one in Australia does at all.


Hi Maurice, thanks for the feedback. You are talking about the Chiquita/Banana Backhand Flick whereas I was practicing a plain vanilla flick with the SP. At my level, the latter is more useful and easier to execute when receiving a side/topspin serve imo (both with SP and inverted).

EDIT: Here is one example of Wang Yidi doing a vanilla flick against Mima Ito.

https://youtu.be/8vJFQOXQj8Y?t=81

Last year, I practiced executing Chiquitas at some point, but I rarely use(d) it in a match.

https://youtu.be/qZhoCF7Em0Y

EDIT: The plain vanilla flick is also easier to execute when receiving a no-spin serve, at least for me.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2022, 05:00 
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That tip of leaving the left hand on the left knee for all of the forehand topspin has totally transformed the forehand of one of my players. Maybe 20% more power from the body. Worth a try if your stance is not low.


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2022, 17:29 
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https://worldtabletennis.com/description?artId=1817


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PostPosted: 11 Nov 2022, 20:08 
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This guy often appeared in videos of WRM/Guccy. He recently started his own YT channel and has some good content imo, e.g. he talks about the vanilla BH flick and pushing short/half-long with the BH in the video below.

https://youtu.be/_TVOUsEqBvw


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