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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 04:04 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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The underlying problem here, as I said in comments in another thread a few months back (which comments for some reason were hotly disputed by others) is that with the new ball, it's way too easy for offensive players to hit through spin. There's this 2100+ kid I play regularly who'd have problems with me when he would loop conventionally, but he started doing much better when he started just finding the right (slightly open) blade angle and throwing my blocks back as fast smacks with minimal spin. This is particularly easy to do from the backhand side, through it can certainly be done from the forehand side as well. Although I regularly beat 2000+ loopers, my hardest opponent is this guy who's probably like 1900 but who smacks everything. I had no problem against him with the old ball. I'd push with inverted, force him to push back and then either get into a pushing contest that I could win or else opportunistically attack a loose ball with my pips or inverted. But now, with this ball, he can smack all but the heaviest pushes. It's the kind of thing that's dispiriting because you're doing a shot that is meant as a defensive shot that will force either a push or a loop, and if I get the latter, I can block it, etc., but instead, I just keep getting smacks. So with this ball, I do much better when I take the initiative and attack with my pips a lot more than I used to, so I've been focusing on that.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 04:39 
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Modern Chiseler.
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
The underlying problem here, as I said in comments in another thread a few months back (which comments for some reason were hotly disputed by others) is that with the new ball, it's way too easy for offensive players to hit through spin.

I agree with you 100%. With this ball, it's much more difficult to force opponents into making mistakes (especially with TM). A lot of my game now is built around twiddling and hitting with the backhand like your friend.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 05:20 
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What I also found interesting was, the same guys who blasted through the pips were talking about how much trouble they had against a couple of anti players. They didn't know the type of anti, but the way they were describing the action of the ball, it sounded like some sort of frictionless anti. These guys were very good over 2000 level loopers and they were saying that with how short the ball was dropped and the reversal on it, they really struggled.
I guess maybe the answer for playing a defensive close to the table game is anti. I tried it a little while ago, but it was just too different from long pips for me. Perhaps after my next upcoming tournaments I will have to dedicate some time to trying to learn it again.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 08:18 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
charmander defender wrote:
dwruck wrote:
The main problem I was having was, for very good players, once they adjusted to the pace of the TM, they didn't generally have a lot of difficulty re-looping.


What you have just narrated so well mirrors my impressions about TM that I posted in this thread some weeks ago ,which reinforces my theory on TM : TM from about 2200 USA level players up is harmless as they can reloop easily .

2200? In my area, even the 1700s have no trouble relooping against TM. The key to success with TM is preventing the opponent from looping to begin with. If that's not possible, use a more disruptive pip.


I meant reloop easily a great number of times ,which forces Tm users, I think , to twiddle as there is no disruption at all .

....I also mean those skilled loopers have a lot of consistency,hence, Tm needs to be disruptive at those levels .....,whereas with DG I have succesfully beaten high level players 1 division higher ..... Been to a national tournament recently and came in 8th, beating higher rated players with DG + Grubba all + ....


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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 10:22 
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From a social playing perspective in using TM (a few times now), just want to echo above comments about TM. I find it is a great LP (slow with excellent control) but my favoured BT and Dawei 388D certainly offer more in terms of forcing errors from consistent attackers/loopers. Though TM does keep many balls on the table, I get more heavily bombarded using it against consistent attackers/loopers. BT and Dawei388D are much better for my close-to-table blocking and hitting game.


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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2019, 14:02 
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TTbuddy wrote:
From a social playing perspective in using TM (a few times now), just want to echo above comments about TM. I find it is a great LP (slow with excellent control) but my favoured BT and Dawei 388D certainly offer more in terms of forcing errors from consistent attackers/loopers. Though TM does keep many balls on the table, I get more heavily bombarded using it against consistent attackers/loopers. BT and Dawei388D are much better for my close-to-table blocking and hitting game.


I've been playing with BT (ox), for a couple of months now,and although, I'm not sure if I've paired with the correct blade, I can say that it's deceptive, and that too in a very subtle way ... I don't know how to hit with LP, but I feel that I can hit with it, better that I can, with some other LPs .... I wonder, how it'd play with a thin sponge ... I think I'll just order one, and see for myself.

Of all the LPs I've owned/played with, the 388D, I feel produces the most amount of in-flight wobble-effect, screwballs, weird trajectories, along with above-average reversal .. I tried this LP on 2, very different blades - A thick Balsa based one (Setup 3, in my signature), and another All blade (Setup 2) ... The 388D, on the XVT balsa blade was a complete disaster ... Oddly, I found it to be way ... way out of control .... On the GKI all blade, was a good match..

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 06:30 
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TTbuddy wrote:
From a social playing perspective in using TM (a few times now), just want to echo above comments about TM. I find it is a great LP (slow with excellent control) but my favoured BT and Dawei 388D certainly offer more in terms of forcing errors from consistent attackers/loopers. Though TM does keep many balls on the table, I get more heavily bombarded using it against consistent attackers/loopers. BT and Dawei388D are much better for my close-to-table blocking and hitting game.


All the above mentioned means that TM is great at a medium level but for an advanced level when you want to rely on the power of your pips, TM does not offer the disruption needed .

Hence, twiddling is a must , however, with DG you can expect more mistakes and opponents feel less safe and do not attack so consistently .

I find Globe 979 ox much more efficient and of course, the price is ridiculously cheaper than TM .


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 06:55 
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charmander defender wrote:
I find Globe 979 ox much more efficient and of course, the price is ridiculously cheaper than TM.

How do you compare the speed of Globe 979 to TM and DG?

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 07:05 
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charmander defender wrote:
I meant reloop easily a great number of times ,which forces Tm users, I think , to twiddle as there is no disruption at all .

....I also mean those skilled loopers have a lot of consistency,hence, Tm needs to be disruptive at those levels .....,whereas with DG I have succesfully beaten high level players 1 division higher ..... Been to a national tournament recently and came in 8th, beating higher rated players with DG + Grubba all + ....

With TM, the medium speed loops are pretty easy to deal with chopblocking.

The hard loops/loop kills are TM's Achilles' heel. DG and some others send back dangerous balls. TM sends back ducks ready to be killed again.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 07:37 
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Quote:
speed of Globe 979 to TM and DG?


From my experience of having tried all three (very brief hit with DG)
Speed: Globe979>DG>TM

Will be interesting to see what Char Def thinks? :)


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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 18:27 
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TTbuddy wrote:
From my experience of having tried all three (very brief hit with DG)
Speed: Globe979>DG>TM

I've tried all 3 as well, and agree with this. :up:

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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 03:43 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
charmander defender wrote:
I find Globe 979 ox much more efficient and of course, the price is ridiculously cheaper than TM.

How do you compare the speed of Globe 979 to TM and DG?


As we all know , Tm is considerably slower than DG or Globe 979 . Globe 979 is a bit faster than DG but I think this added speed is not an issue ; at least with my combo : Globe 979 / DG + Moristo DF 1.2 (soft sponge) .

Also, my DG is getting very,very old with lots of training sessions and tournaments so with less and less friction it is becoming slower and really great to handle .

I have a friend who has been using Globe 979 for years and last September at a tournament he lent me his bat with a very well worn down Globe 979 . I must say the speed was slow and the control excellent with a fairly low trajectory .

My theory is that a well worn down Globe 979 performs much better than Tm, it is harder for the opponent to reloop.Straight out of the packet the Globe 979 has not a lot of friction but for example A brand new DG has a lot more .

If we experimented with a Globe 979 and the sunrays, I bet it would become a really hard rubber to beat since the low / zero friction would make it much more dangerous and especially slow .


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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 06:26 
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And how do any of these compare to the Bomb Talent? (I last tried it years ago, so I don't have a good recollection of how it worked, but I know some people think it's a good fit for the new ball.)

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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 07:10 
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BT > 388D1 > DG > TM

BT is a little bit faster, but still controllable. I think it's the most disruptive of the four listed above and can execute all the normal shots.

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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 07:16 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
BT > 388D1 > DG > TM

BT is a little bit faster, but still controllable. I think it's the most disruptive of the four listed above and can execute all the normal shots.


Thanks. I know the knock on it from some of those who've used it recently on the noppen-test.de forum has been susceptibility to underspin. Have you not found that to be the case?

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