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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2019, 10:21 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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Blade: Re-impact Tachi + (ABS)
FH: Nittaku Fastarc G-1 1.4mm
BH: DMS Elite Long OX
Gzubik wrote:
And how would you compare elite long and death methal? I know that both are great attacks but are there more similarities?

Wysłane z mojego MI 9 przy użyciu Tapatalka


- They are similar as far as attacking (Death Metal is a bit better, perhaps).

- Elite Long generates more passive spin reversal than Death, though, maybe, slightly less than Troublemaker.

- Elite Long has a bit less dampening effect than Death.

- Elite Long is better for consistent chopping.

- Elite Long is not sensitive to underspin.

- They are similarly effective when blocking actively.

- Elite Long is a bit faster.

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I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
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PostPosted: 23 Nov 2019, 21:40 
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Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon
FH: Joola Golden Tango 1.8mm
BH: Tibhar Grass Detecs OX
charmander defender wrote:
Roy wrote:
I played yesterday in 2. division tournament that was streamed. Here you can find my first 2 games in the closest table to camera. Both games went to 5. sets. I have black shirt.

MY EQUIPMENT: Joola CWX blade, S&T Secret flow chop 2.1 and Troublemaker ox.

GAME 1: Starts at 54:00 min. The opponent is consistent 2 wing top spin player that lacks finishing power against underspin. Rated at 2036, number 68 in Finland, former number 11 at Finland in year 2004.

https://youtu.be/0xstujjNAI0?t=3241

GAME 1: Starts at 1.54.55. The opponent is consistent roller/pusher/grinder and has good FH smash if ball pops up. Rated at 1860.

https://youtu.be/0xstujjNAI0?t=6885


Great defensive play, Roy ! putting balls onto the table consistently and attacking with inverted when necessary,however, if you start twiddling a little bit , your level will increase significantly . Also, I suggest you receive with inverted from time to time to catch the opponent out as they always expect you to receive with the pips .


I agree about twiddling. its very important skill to have if you are playing with long pimples. In the lower level you dont need it so much but when you are dealing with better player who send you emty balls to your long pimples you need it.
Charmander def. how do you twiddle? Imean do you use inverted then in your backhand? Do you make backspin and topspin with inverted when you have twiddled? I have seen that people push light backspin after they get my pimple block from their topsin. Then when i get that light backspin I can either topspin or backspin that.

Soba


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2019, 00:13 
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Soba wrote:
charmander defender wrote:

I agree about twiddling. its very important skill to have if you are playing with long pimples. In the lower level you dont need it so much but when you are dealing with better player who send you emty balls to your long pimples you need it.
Charmander def. how do you twiddle? Imean do you use inverted then in your backhand? Do you make backspin and topspin with inverted when you have twiddled? I have seen that people push light backspin after they get my pimple block from their topsin. Then when i get that light backspin I can either topspin or backspin that.

Soba


Yes, Soba, I use the inverted on the bh . Firstly, when I play against a high level player who adapts to the pip easily,then, when I twiddle he does not expect the attack from the inverted and even if it is not very fast; just the change of spin is enough to catch many players out .

Secondly, another strategy is that I tend to pivot on the fh side when they pass the ball and if it is long enough for me to pivot , I attack from the bh side with my inverted rubber as a fh attack .

Both of these strategies yield great results because the opponent won't know what to expect from me, however ,if you just block all the time, unless you have a very disruptive pip, your blocks will be finally killed and now with the new ball ,disruption is getting less and less effective, therefore, any blocker trying to remain at a decent high level MUST twiddle at some point in the game, when the time is right, hence, intelligence and wisdom come into play .

I tend to make topspin when I twiddle,it seems more efective for my style of play .I also like blocking with the inverted on the bh or pushing to catch the opponent out. These changes in rhythm make opponents make mistakes due to not having enough timing to hit the next ball .

Especially , against LP players who push the no spin ball against my pips so I push the ball out of the table,or just push the ball high for his attack,twiddling will solve the problem as you kill their strategy; also, sometimes you want to avoid the pip to pip rallies, which ususally end up pushing the ball out.

Of course, to play like this you need to be fit, have proper leg movements and not all the blockers have great mobility ; they are just stuck in the middle to reveive the serve or on the bh side with little movement .

If anyone trains, they can improve their level a lot , unless you have a physical impediment, the twiddling game is the road to go . I have a friend who is a brilliant blocker ; he barely attacks with the forehand, he never uses the inverted on the bh- in fact he has no idea- but he is very effective at blocking , pushing and sidewiping; his serves are basic, heavy underspin or no spin and in my league he wins 90/ 95 % of the games.However , in the next higher league, he just wins 20/ 30 % of the games ...... we must change our style for a more active game and COUNTERATTACK !!!!! :lol: :lol:


Last edited by charmander defender on 26 Nov 2019, 05:18, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2019, 08:32 
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ootbs wrote:
Hello,

To all who've played extensively with both, TM and Metal TT Death .. How do both these, stack-up against each other ?

I play close to the table, using my LP BH blocking to set up my FH loop to finish points. In my experience, TM is slower, less sensitive to spin, and I can attack a bit better with it compared to Death although Death attacks pretty well.

However, Death has much more spin reversal and the ball has more spin variation on it. Opponents find it harder to attack against Death especially attacking the 2nd or 3rd ball. Same opponents don't have the same issues continuing their attacks against TM.

Death requires you to play an active stroke such as a chop clock or side swipe. You also have to pay attention to the spin as Death is more sensitive to incoming spin.

If you play a passive blocking game then Death is not for you.

If you play an active blocking game then Death is the much better choice. With Death you have many more options available to vary your LP play and set up your offense.

I just wish it was a little slower while keeping all the remaining good properties (I play with an OFF+ blade.)


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2019, 12:10 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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FH: Nittaku Fastarc G-1 1.4mm
BH: DMS Elite Long OX
NoFootwork wrote:
However, Death has much more spin reversal and the ball has more spin variation on it. Opponents find it harder to attack against Death especially attacking the 2nd or 3rd ball. Same opponents don't have the same issues continuing their attacks against TM. Death requires you to play an active stroke such as a chop clock or side swipe. You also have to pay attention to the spin as Death is more sensitive to incoming spin. If you play a passive blocking game then Death is not for you.


This is just a matter of terminology, since I think we actually agree (and I'm clarifying this more so other readers understand that we agree), but what you're actually saying is that Death has LESS spin reversal -- since spin reversal usually refers to PASSIVE reversal -- but it has more ability to GENERATE spin, and if you play actively (e.g, chop block), you can create more underspin against loops or topspin again underspin with active strokes than you can with Troublemaker.

_________________
I. Re-Impact Turbo; FH: Spinlord Sandwind 1.5mm; BH: DMS Kamikaze OX
II. Re-Impact Smart; FH: TSP Spinpips RED 2.1mm; BH: Dr. Neubauer Gangster OX
III. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Spinlord Waran 1.8mm; BH: Giant Dragon Snowflake OX
IV. Sauer & Troger Firestarter; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: Joola Badman Reloaded OX
V. Victas Koji Matsushita; FH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Soft 1.8mm; BH: TSP P-1R 1.0-1.3mm
USATT Rating: 2037


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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2019, 22:31 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
NoFootwork wrote:
However, Death has much more spin reversal and the ball has more spin variation on it. Opponents find it harder to attack against Death especially attacking the 2nd or 3rd ball. Same opponents don't have the same issues continuing their attacks against TM. Death requires you to play an active stroke such as a chop clock or side swipe. You also have to pay attention to the spin as Death is more sensitive to incoming spin. If you play a passive blocking game then Death is not for you.


This is just a matter of terminology, since I think we actually agree (and I'm clarifying this more so other readers understand that we agree), but what you're actually saying is that Death has LESS spin reversal -- since spin reversal usually refers to PASSIVE reversal -- but it has more ability to GENERATE spin, and if you play actively (e.g, chop block), you can create more underspin against loops or topspin again underspin with active strokes than you can with Troublemaker.

Yup. Death doesn't have much spin reversal on passive blocks but generates more spin on active blocking than TM.


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2019, 07:38 
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Blade: Stiga Defensive Classic
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BH: Tibhar D.TecS
I initially tried TM on a balsa blade some weeks back and thought it was so shockingly bad that I gave up after about 10 minutes.

Tonight I decided to try it on a Stiga Azalea Allround after reading all of the positive comments about the BTY Grubba. The Azalea Allround is rated ALL+ but is probably closer to OFF-. The initial chops scared me a bit as they went quite long but after spending about 15 minutes with one of the kids in the club that securely can do 10+ loops against LP chopping it actually started to behave quite nicely. Very safe. The balls just keep landing on the table.

Very easy to hit with but way less dangerous compared to D.TecS so I'm a bit uncertain if I should park this setup until the end of the season.

Great rubber in any case!


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2019, 08:39 
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Thank you for projecting my exact thoughts on TM with a Balsa blade (2.5 in my case).
Verdict on the few occasions I have tried it:
(1) Slow, overall good control, less dangerous.
(2) I somehow feel consistency is lacking at times due to the balsa effect ?? :^)

An All-wood (non Balsa) blade rated ALL or ALL+ will be a much better fit (I think!).

Just my two cents :)

Fully concur on TM being a great overall LP ;)


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2019, 21:29 
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Blade: Grubba all+
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BH: DG ox/Globe 979 ox
I have been wondering if Tm plus a carbon blade ( off -) could yield better results.I think the added speed from the carbon layers will make the rubber more dangerous and since Tm is really slow, a carbon blade could improve its performance .Maybe the carbon Grubba might make TM better ? .

I have mounted Tm on DMS deluxe carbon and an inverted on 1.4mm on the fh . Maybe somebody here has tried TM on a carbon blade yet ?


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2019, 23:04 
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One of the coaches in our club uses DG on the Spinlord Ultra Carbon DEF. It's a really nice blade and I'm quite certain that TM would play quite well on it.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 03:33 
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BH: Dr Neubauer Troublemaker
charmander defender wrote:
I have been wondering if Tm plus a carbon blade ( off -) could yield better results.I think the added speed from the carbon layers will make the rubber more dangerous and since Tm is really slow, a carbon blade could improve its performance .Maybe the carbon Grubba might make TM better ? .

I have mounted Tm on DMS deluxe carbon and an inverted on 1.4mm on the fh . Maybe somebody here has tried TM on a carbon blade yet ?


I have played with Troublemaker ox on an Xiom carbon blade and it works well for me. The blade is rated at offensive and the speed is faster on the Troublemaker, but the control is still there.
It also makes attacks quicker and I can defend further away from the table, if I need to do so. The returns from distance are quicker and this gives your opponent less time to continue attacking. Also a carbon blade improves the attack with reversed rubbers on the forehand.
I have to use Troublemaker ox in black, since there is black writing on the blade and this will show through the rubber if Troublemaker ox in red is used.
Do you think there is any difference between red and black Troublemaker in ox?


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 04:11 
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Modern Chiseler.
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I tried Troublemaker on Nittaku Shake Defense and Grubba Carbon and felt it didn't trouble my opponents much on either blade. I tried TM on many blades, and for me it only works on Grubba ALL+.

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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 06:38 
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mart1nandersson wrote:
One of the coaches in our club uses DG on the Spinlord Ultra Carbon DEF. It's a really nice blade and I'm quite certain that TM would play quite well on it.
I have it and I tried TM ox on it few days ago. It chopped quite good. :up: On the other hand, blocking at table demanded presice angle, so it was not very forgiving in that department.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 06:52 
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Roy wrote:
mart1nandersson wrote:
One of the coaches in our club uses DG on the Spinlord Ultra Carbon DEF. It's a really nice blade and I'm quite certain that TM would play quite well on it.
I have it and I tried TM ox on it few days ago. It chopped quite good. :up: On the other hand, blocking at table demanded presice angle, so it was not very forgiving in that department.


It's extremely nice for inverted chopping as well. He has Haifu Whale on his FH and it's so controlled both when chopping and looping. The short game is a dream. Way too fast for me though as I prefer D.TecS on the BH and I would miss the table with 3-4m if I tried to hit with it on this blade.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2019, 07:46 
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jmkeynes wrote:
charmander defender wrote:
I have been wondering if Tm plus a carbon blade ( off -) could yield better results.I think the added speed from the carbon layers will make the rubber more dangerous and since Tm is really slow, a carbon blade could improve its performance .Maybe the carbon Grubba might make TM better ? .

I have mounted Tm on DMS deluxe carbon and an inverted on 1.4mm on the fh . Maybe somebody here has tried TM on a carbon blade yet ?


I have played with Troublemaker ox on an Xiom carbon blade and it works well for me. The blade is rated at offensive and the speed is faster on the Troublemaker, but the control is still there.
It also makes attacks quicker and I can defend further away from the table, if I need to do so. The returns from distance are quicker and this gives your opponent less time to continue attacking. Also a carbon blade improves the attack with reversed rubbers on the forehand.
I have to use Troublemaker ox in black, since there is black writing on the blade and this will show through the rubber if Troublemaker ox in red is used.
Do you think there is any difference between red and black Troublemaker in ox?


It does seem a carbon blade may improve TM but not all carbon blades are the same :sweat: . Today I have been testing Tm on DMS carbon deluxe. The control is not lost especially because my Tm lost a lot of friction, so it became even slower . I was able to block low and short and the pushes were somewhat more dangerous but as we have been discussing here on this thread , a good looper will still have no problems to reloop again and again, even if Tm is on a fast carbon blade .

I played consistently with Tm but with this setup I have to pivot more and use my inverted . Tm helps me a lot to build a Fh attack so, with Tm I play more actively and attack as I cannot gain points from continuous blocking .

I bought both a red and black TM and I don't think the black one plays very differently from the red one , however , I felt more confident with a red Tm, the black one - at least mine - had a lot more friction than the red one while brand new . As the days went by , I started to dislike the black Tm, not because it performed badly but because I had better feelings with the red one . I still feel the red plays better but maybe this is just my experience , maybe others , have a different opinion .


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