OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 08 Dec 2021, 10:08


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2021, 19:25 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1893
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 178 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se-Hyuk (ST)
FH: BTY Dignics 09C (1.9mm)
BH: TSP Curl P1-R (1.0mm)
magnuseffect wrote:
Things to work on are being able to serve long and fast under pressure and find a serve that lets me get more 3rd ball attacks, got hardly any this match. I think a short serve even wider in forehand would have given me some returns to forehand and middle that could have been looped.

The other way to do this is to encourage a return to your backhand, and be prepared to step around the corner with your forehand.

E.g. serve pendulum topspin, which encourages the ball to come back to your backhand. Or serve long, fast, "straight" topspin into your opponent's backhand. Both of these serves will usually come straight back to your backhand... so serve, and start to move around the corner. When the ball comes long into your backhand corner, you'll already have the space to play a strong loop.

If you do this though, where you aim your loop is vital. If you put the ball on your opponent's bat, chances are they'll just block it down your forehand which can result in a direct point for them. Instead, aim it right into their body or at their playing elbow.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 


PostPosted: 16 Nov 2021, 02:17 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 17 Sep 2014, 17:25
Posts: 94
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 21 times
dunc wrote:
The other way to do this is to encourage a return to your backhand, and be prepared to step around the corner with your forehand.

E.g. serve pendulum topspin, which encourages the ball to come back to your backhand. Or serve long, fast, "straight" topspin into your opponent's backhand. Both of these serves will usually come straight back to your backhand... so serve, and start to move around the corner. When the ball comes long into your backhand corner, you'll already have the space to play a strong loop.

If you do this though, where you aim your loop is vital. If you put the ball on your opponent's bat, chances are they'll just block it down your forehand which can result in a direct point for them. Instead, aim it right into their body or at their playing elbow.


Good points! I was working on my forehand serves and 3rd ball attacks last month but I stopped after the constant serve racket hits to my ribs got too painful (even took some painkillers during the veterans, maybe that's why I played so well : ). Fast pendulum serves and scoop serves are ok though so I could work more on those.

Yeah placement will be key for this play. I would mostly go for the elbow, but very angled to backhand also usually works well.

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2021, 08:15 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 17 Sep 2014, 17:25
Posts: 94
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Had a couple of good training sessions this week and made some notes.

Exercise 1: Partner (strong 3rd ball attacker) serves short, free long return and then topspin towards elbow.

Just pushing long to mid forehand or mid backhand doesn't work unless the serve is high and you can get a really aggressive return. When the serve is spinny and low I have to angle it into corners or middle (side spin pimple return for example). Low half long returns are also good at stopping strong attacks.

The most important thing when close to the table after the serve return is to keep the bat high! I keep forgetting to raise the bat after the return. If I don't do this the chop almost always goes out. Its the same when you expect a hard loop in open play, just keeping the bat high lets you react faster.


Exercise 2: One or two topspins against backhand chop, then free push which I either attack or push back and repeat with 1-2 topspin and push.

The idea here is that a good chop should give you an easy push to attack. I was hardly able to attack any push successfully but then got some good tips from the coach. When I have the chance I can take the ball earlier, not letting it drop so much to get a more aggressive downwards chop. This really worked on slow higher loops when I have time to move closer. After the aggressive chop you typically get a weaker loop or an easier push to attack.

Other notes from training is that more controlled breathing seems to help me stay relaxed. This weekend we travel up north to Bodø to play the first league round. The league is weaker than usual this year so we got a good chance at a top two position.

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2021, 10:00 
Offline
New Member
User avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2010, 15:20
Posts: 49
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times
Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45
FH: DHS H3
BH: Donic Barracuda
Hi,

I watched your match, what a close match, it is quite exasperating when you lose those ones, you do so many things right and well and then just get tight and drop your level a little and away it goes.

Regarding your own comments about serve, I think yes nearly everyone can improve their serve, add new types of serve, serve with more quality or deception and certainly something we should all work on a lot. You did use that same backhand serve a lot and he seemed quite comfortable with returning that one, although you mostly served nice and tight and didn't allow him hardly any strong first attack returns.

I think in this match it was not so much your serving but the placement and quality of your push/chop at times. Typical pattern was when you served, was your backhand serve, he pushed to your forehand mid long, you then chopped/pushed generally 3/4 long, he would go for a forehand topspin if at all possible, and then he had a 60% chance of winning the point. So I think if you were able to do that first chop (taking the ball early) and putting it within 8cm of the end of the table with good backspin and at the body, this would make if very difficult for that big guy to get in position to loop and lift that successfully, if he missed a lot and started to push that then you have an attack opening. Pushing, chopping occassionaly wide is good too, but depth and body placement i think would have worked well in this match.

So i suggest doing a practise drill where you do a fast heavy push very deep at opponents elbow position. Very useful against attackers that stand too close to the table or are not good super quick movers, especially when they have just received a short serve and are a bit lazy to go back out enough from the table.

Your curly forehand has crazy side spin, so nice.

Anyways good fortune with your matches.

_________________
SU1 : Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45 FH: DHS H3 max blk| BH: Donic Barracuda max red
SU2 : Blade: Joola Rossi Emotion FH: DHS H3 max blk | BH:Donic Barracuda max red


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Nov 2021, 23:26 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 17 Sep 2014, 17:25
Posts: 94
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 21 times
ttgame wrote:
Hi,

I watched your match, what a close match, it is quite exasperating when you lose those ones, you do so many things right and well and then just get tight and drop your level a little and away it goes.

Regarding your own comments about serve, I think yes nearly everyone can improve their serve, add new types of serve, serve with more quality or deception and certainly something we should all work on a lot. You did use that same backhand serve a lot and he seemed quite comfortable with returning that one, although you mostly served nice and tight and didn't allow him hardly any strong first attack returns.

I think in this match it was not so much your serving but the placement and quality of your push/chop at times. Typical pattern was when you served, was your backhand serve, he pushed to your forehand mid long, you then chopped/pushed generally 3/4 long, he would go for a forehand topspin if at all possible, and then he had a 60% chance of winning the point. So I think if you were able to do that first chop (taking the ball early) and putting it within 8cm of the end of the table with good backspin and at the body, this would make if very difficult for that big guy to get in position to loop and lift that successfully, if he missed a lot and started to push that then you have an attack opening. Pushing, chopping occassionaly wide is good too, but depth and body placement i think would have worked well in this match.

So i suggest doing a practise drill where you do a fast heavy push very deep at opponents elbow position. Very useful against attackers that stand too close to the table or are not good super quick movers, especially when they have just received a short serve and are a bit lazy to go back out enough from the table.

Your curly forehand has crazy side spin, so nice.

Anyways good fortune with your matches.


Thanks again for the feedback! It's motivating to feel the support from you and others on the forum.

Agree that the quality of pushes and chops is maybe the most important thing I need to work on to not get killed by strong loopers like my opponent in this match. I have the same problem as Duncan mentioned on his blog of being tense affecting returns and pushes. Maybe I need to force myself to be more aggressive and accept that I'll miss a bit. It should pay off in the long term to get yourself used to always going for quality shots. I won several points when twiddling to inverted to get more spin on the push and I think you are right in that better quality depth and placement on the chops would give the same result. The drill you mentioned is similar to the exercise I mentioned last week. I need to train this more and also be able to do a fast push with both forehand and backhand.

I think my short backhand serve is fine, but improving the long fast serve would make the opponent less comfortable and also make the short serve more effective. A good forehand serve could also get some cheap 3rd ball points.

I have lots of new matches from this weekend that I'll get back to. For now I have uploaded this one https://youtu.be/qt1T4YKFOus.

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2021, 13:42 
Offline
New Member
User avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2010, 15:20
Posts: 49
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times
Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45
FH: DHS H3
BH: Donic Barracuda
Hi Magnus,

Quote:
For now I have uploaded this one https://youtu.be/qt1T4YKFOus.


What a nice match that was, some great rallies, very entertaining to watch.
Really some great determination to keep the ball in play in some of those.

I thought your pushing/chopping in this match was very good, bat twiddle was excellent and produced a lot of errors from your opponent.

Something that did cost you some points in the early sets was your forehand attack against a soft highish push, many times you were not able to land this ball on the other side, so definitely something you could work on. Interestingly in the 5th set you did manage to land most of these. Otherwise congrats on an excellent win.

_________________
SU1 : Blade: Stiga Carbonado 45 FH: DHS H3 max blk| BH: Donic Barracuda max red
SU2 : Blade: Joola Rossi Emotion FH: DHS H3 max blk | BH:Donic Barracuda max red


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 08:18 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 17 Sep 2014, 17:25
Posts: 94
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 21 times
ttgame wrote:
Hi Magnus,

What a nice match that was, some great rallies, very entertaining to watch.
Really some great determination to keep the ball in play in some of those.

I thought your pushing/chopping in this match was very good, bat twiddle was excellent and produced a lot of errors from your opponent.

Something that did cost you some points in the early sets was your forehand attack against a soft highish push, many times you were not able to land this ball on the other side, so definitely something you could work on. Interestingly in the 5th set you did manage to land most of these. Otherwise congrats on an excellent win.


Thanks! It was a hard match, my opponent got a bit nervous at the end there but I'm pretty happy with how I played. Good observation about the unforced forehand errors, very annoying and I'm not sure why it happens. Could be I'm taking the ball too late or not decisive enough. Pushing was mostly good too, but some of the pushes when I'm running back to the table after chopping or looping is a bit tentative and would be good to put some more pressure with an aggressive well placed push.

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2021, 23:50 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1893
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 178 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se-Hyuk (ST)
FH: BTY Dignics 09C (1.9mm)
BH: TSP Curl P1-R (1.0mm)
ttgame wrote:
Something that did cost you some points in the early sets was your forehand attack against a soft highish push, many times you were not able to land this ball on the other side, so definitely something you could work on.

Arrrggghhh I do this soooo often :@ Against similar level opponents I'll regularly get pop-ups from my serves then miss the return because it's almost too high, or short, or because I'm just not well positioned to make an attack.

My advice here Magnus, something I'm working on this week, is to move BACK a bit (give yourself space) and keep your head/chest DOWN. You and I both "stand up" to play this shot, which is probably why we miss when we're so close to the table. Also try to think of looping the ball "downwards".

I saw a great video from that female German Pro (forget her name) where her colleague showed the correct way to play a forehand from your backhand corner. She showed that amateur players get too close to the table when doing this, and I believe you and I both suffer from that. Leave more space between your feet and the table, to give your forehand more space. She used a small waste bin at the corner of the table to demonstrate moving around the bin instead of getting too close to the table.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2021, 07:49 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 17 Sep 2014, 17:25
Posts: 94
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 21 times
dunc wrote:
Arrrggghhh I do this soooo often :@ Against similar level opponents I'll regularly get pop-ups from my serves then miss the return because it's almost too high, or short, or because I'm just not well positioned to make an attack.

My advice here Magnus, something I'm working on this week, is to move BACK a bit (give yourself space) and keep your head/chest DOWN. You and I both "stand up" to play this shot, which is probably why we miss when we're so close to the table. Also try to think of looping the ball "downwards".

I saw a great video from that female German Pro (forget her name) where her colleague showed the correct way to play a forehand from your backhand corner. She showed that amateur players get too close to the table when doing this, and I believe you and I both suffer from that. Leave more space between your feet and the table, to give your forehand more space. She used a small waste bin at the corner of the table to demonstrate moving around the bin instead of getting too close to the table.


Thanks Duncan, that's interesting! Yes I suspect that I stand too close and it feels like I'm not hitting the ball in front of the body, more on the side. And being further away from the table should make the stroke naturally go more forward. I was actually training my forehand serve and 3rd ball attack today and it was not working at all, felt like I was not properly placed. Maybe I also need to work on the footwork going from serve position to ready position. Would be great to find that video.

I've uploaded another shorter edit of my game vs the no 1 player on the same team. I probably would have needed a more active forehand in this match: https://youtu.be/-6vKiRLVoAs

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2021, 09:34 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1893
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 178 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se-Hyuk (ST)
FH: BTY Dignics 09C (1.9mm)
BH: TSP Curl P1-R (1.0mm)
Found it: https://youtu.be/1WgdB7yUrlE

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2021, 16:45 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 19 Jan 2018, 05:51
Posts: 480
Location: UK
Has thanked: 78 times
Been thanked: 63 times
Blade: Nittaku Shake Defence
FH: Moristo SP 1.8
BH: Dtecs OX
magnuseffect wrote:
I've uploaded another shorter edit of my game vs the no 1 player on the same team. I probably would have needed a more active forehand in this match: https://youtu.be/-6vKiRLVoAs



Your FH alone is entertaining, but also the modern defence game is just so so nice to watch and you look really good doing it. Well played my man! Your opponent looked so darn good as well, super consistent and with high quality too

_________________
my youtube
http://www.youtube.com/ndragon88

My Vlog / Blog
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2021, 07:20 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 17 Sep 2014, 17:25
Posts: 94
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 21 times
dunc wrote:


Thanks! Very nice, I need to work on all three mistakes. Good idea to put something in front of the table to force distance. I'll see if I can find something suitable next training.

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2021, 07:23 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 17 Sep 2014, 17:25
Posts: 94
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 21 times
Ndragon wrote:

Your FH alone is entertaining, but also the modern defence game is just so so nice to watch and you look really good doing it. Well played my man! Your opponent looked so darn good as well, super consistent and with high quality too


Thanks! Yeah he is very consistent, also very good at blocking. Previously I've won by playing defensive, but his offense has improved now so its hard to find a good strategy. Maybe counterloop more.

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2021, 07:32 
Offline
Full member

Joined: 17 Sep 2014, 17:25
Posts: 94
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 21 times
A few days ago I got a newsletter from OSAI announcing that they have started a service where you can upload or link to matches for analysis. It works best with side camera so I'll wait to try it until I get a side recorded match. It's pretty expensive though at 29.99 euro per match, but as a software developer and tt player I have to try it : )

Some screenshots here: https://imgur.com/a/WVL3BLl

_________________
Blade: Victas Yuto Muramatsu
Forehand: Dignics 09c 2.1
Backhand: Curl P1V 1mm

My blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2021, 18:33 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1893
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 186 times
Been thanked: 178 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se-Hyuk (ST)
FH: BTY Dignics 09C (1.9mm)
BH: TSP Curl P1-R (1.0mm)
You're a Developer? Cool, I'm a DevOps Engineer... :)

I'm excited to see the outcome of that. 30 euros is certainly a lot for a single match, but I too would do it at least once. Just need to find the right match. Perhaps a close loss would be the best thing to submit?

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2018 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group