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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2019, 23:26 
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Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
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Location: Cudahy, WI, USA
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Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Scandal 1.2
So far I'm enjoying learning the frictionless anti style of play. The advice here and videos of players like AA have been extremely helpful. After settling on the Dr Neubauer Matador blade, I ordered a few so I could try different frictionless antis and try to settle on one.
I've started taking lessons from a player who is very well versed in pip and anti spin play here in my area, and the two sessions I've had with him so far have been extremely helpful. It's been great to be able to get coaching and do drills with each rubber so I can do direct comparisons on which I like the best.
I thought I'd share my initial impressions of these rubbers on the Matador. Same forehand rubber on each, Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9 mm.
Dr Neubauer ABS2 Soft in 2.3 mm, Scandal and Diabolic Extra Slow both in 1.2 mm
Again, I am new to this type of rubber, so as I gain more proficiency with it my thoughts might change, but I figured this could be helpful to others who are considering making the change.

Speed (fast to slow): ABS2 Soft>Scandal=Diabolic Extra Slow
I will say, the DMS rubbers are noticeably slower than ABS2 Soft. That being said, the ABS 2 Soft is still very controllable. This mostly affects my rating of the depth of return of each, which I will go into more detail below.

Throw (high to low): ABS2 Soft>Diabolic Extra Slow>Scandal
I'd put the ABS2 Soft as medium, Diabolic as medium/low, and Scandal as lowest.

Passive Reversal (most to least): ABS2 Soft>Scandal>Diabolic Extra Slow
My coach was surprised at the amount of reversal on the ABS2 Soft against an "average" loop. While it went deeper on the table, he felt that it had noticeably more reversal than the DMS rubbers. He thought Scandal had a good amount of passive reversal, while Diabolic was more of a dead ball.

Depth of return (deepest to shortest): ABS2 Soft>Diabolic Extra Slow=Scandal
I couldn't really tell much of a difference in the DMS rubbers, but again they were noticeably shorter than ABS2 Soft

Consistency of Attack (highest to lowest): Diabolic Extra Slow>ABS2 Soft>Scandal
Drills were against a medium height ball (either dead or with slight top spin). I was noticeably more consistent with landing flat attacks with the Diabolic. ABS2 attacks were faster, and maybe more disruptive for that reason, but I also lost more balls long off the end of the table if the blade wasn't correct. Scandal, with its low throw, I would hit into the net if I didn't have the angle just right. With the Diabolic, it felt like I could be a little off with the angle and still land it with precision. The same held true if attacking lower balls; control of the Diabolic was the best.

Coming from a more "active" style of game on the backhand, where I liked to chop/block, chop, and hit with long pips, the ABS2 Soft has been the easiest for me to adjust to so far. For someone transitioning from the current crop of long pips, I feel like it's most similar. The DMS antis are so much slower than any long pip, it takes more of an adjustment than the ABS2 Soft. I had some matches after my most recent training session, and I was making too many mistakes with the Scandal (wrong blade angle, too many balls dumped into the net), but for my last match I changed to the ABS2 Soft and beat a player at my level thanks to good reversal and less mistakes.

I'm going to continue training with all 3 for now, and try to settle on one to focus on while improving my technique. My coach seems to think that long term the Scandal might be the best for me, it's just more of an adjustment right now.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1667
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Scandal 1.2


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 00:12 
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Blade: Grubba All+
FH: Moristo1.2/ Marder 1.2
BH: DG/ Sanwei DZ ox
At the time I tested Both Scandal 0.9 and ABS 2 Soft 2.5 . I found Abs 2 Soft great to attack backspin( something you did not mention in your post ) :o .

Yes, with Scandal the blocks are much much shorter but I found it more difficult to attack the no spin ball , for this department, ABS 2 Soft is much better in my view .

I suppose you must see for yourself which rubber gives you the most advantage , if it weren't for my lack of time to adapt to the change, I would be playing with flanti now, however, coming back to the pips play was great since I found a new setup which is yielding great results . Also, improving my game with the inverted in both bh and fh has allowed me to play at a great level. All this has happened because the crappy new ball is making us reinvent ourselves. We cannot live on defense any more, EVEN with flanti, my friend :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2019, 01:03 
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Darth Pips
Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4544
Location: Cudahy, WI, USA
Has thanked: 79 times
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Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Scandal 1.2
Agree about the attacking capabilities against backspin in my experience so far. I think this is where the combination of the slow speed and low throw make Scandal less effective from this perspective. As far as no spin balls go, so far I'm finding both about the same in terms of difficulty. ABS2 Soft tends to go long when I miss with it, whereas Scandal tends to go too low when I miss with it.

I do want to be able to attack with my backhand. One of my best weapons with long pips has always been my backhand attack, as other players aren't expecting it. Using a very flat punch type of motion is pretty effective with the anti against medium height balls. Against slower topspin, even a small punch forward, controlled, can really do some odd things to the ball for an opponent. That's easier to do with ABS2 Soft I think because of how rock hard that sponge is.

When I watch the videos of AA, he is able to get some good attacks with the DMS rubbers. Ideally, I think the combination of the ability to drop balls short, with some reversal, combined with ability to attack with it is the ideal setup. I just have to see if I can get to being able to do that consistently, or if long term the ABS2 Soft is better for the style I want to play.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1667
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Scandal 1.2


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2019, 00:57 
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Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
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Location: Cudahy, WI, USA
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Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Scandal 1.2
After a few more sessions, I've narrowed it down to Scandal and ABS2 Soft, with Scandal the current leader. I found Diabolic Extra Slow to have great control and consistency, but it didn't give other players trouble as much as those other two rubbers did.
Over the weekend I exclusively used the Scandal and have gotten much better at attacking underspin balls with it. Punch style attacks against dead balls are getting better also. I'm still taking lessons and every time I feel like I get a lot better; it's just that I'm at the point right now where taking the lesson pieces and putting them into play in matches isn't consistent yet. When I get rushed I still tend to revert to my long pips type of strokes, which obviously causes problems. I've gotten a lot of nice feedback from other players about how well I'm already playing with the anti, and how difficult it is to play against. A lot of people play away from it to my forehand, and that didn't happen as often as with the pips.
So right now it's a choice for me between the ABS2 Soft and Scandal. The edge of the ABS2 Soft is that I think it has the most reversal and the attacks are faster. The advantages that I'm finding with the Scandal is that I'm able to drop balls much shorter, while reversal is still very good. The slower attacks I think gives players a little more time to react to them, but that's where I've got to step around and use the forehand to finish off more points. There are things I like about both rubbers, even though they are pretty different.
Been watching a lot of videos of AA. First to watch his technique, then to watch his strategy and movement. It's been so incredibly helpful.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1667
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Scandal 1.2


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2019, 07:17 
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Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
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Blade: Grubba All+
FH: Moristo1.2/ Marder 1.2
BH: DG/ Sanwei DZ ox
You tested Dms Deluxe carbon?..... it seems it works really well with Scandal / Reflection


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2019, 23:30 
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Darth Pips
Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4544
Location: Cudahy, WI, USA
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 89 times
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Scandal 1.2
I am really liking the Dr N Matador blade right now. As I've read here, I've found that it's not quite as stiff as something like Deluxe Carbon, so I can still have really spinny and powerful loops with it.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1667
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Scandal 1.2


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2019, 00:14 
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Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4544
Location: Cudahy, WI, USA
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Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Scandal 1.2
After more sessions and coaching, I've settled on moving forward with Scandal. I recently tested out ABS2 Soft 2.3 and ABS2 "regular" in 2.5. The control for the regular ABS2 was great; it was so easy to block everything. The problem was, the feedback I got from the people I hit with is that it gave them no problems at all. The ABS2 soft gave more reversal than the regular version, and because of it being faster the attacks were maybe a bit more dangerous than with Scandal, but in terms of defensive play it didn't give the reversal or ability to drop the ball short like Scandal. It's a good rubber, but in the end I don't think it suits the style I want to play. In my opinion, from my limited experience, you'd have to play a more aggressive style with the Neubauer anti. I want to be able to attack, but I want to be able to set up that attack through blocking, placement and reversal, and the Scandal is better for that in my experience so far.
I've been watching a lot of AA's videos and I'm hoping to work on a similar style, except with a little more of a spinny forehand loop. I'm actually pretty excited about continuing to train with this. In terms of providing spin reversal, blocking ability, and being able to attack, there is so much potential.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1667
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Scandal 1.2


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2019, 02:30 
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Joined: 15 Jan 2018, 04:47
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Blade: Grubba All+
FH: Moristo1.2/ Marder 1.2
BH: DG/ Sanwei DZ ox
You sound excited, which is great, however, let me tell you that with weak, no spin ball players you will have a lot of trouble as the anti is useless against this kind of players.This type of antis NEED loopers, great attackers so you can block with reversal,....

As it is not easy to attack the no spin ball, especially with Scandal ( ABS soft is much better in this department) , then, you will have to twiddle a lot or pivot and attack with the inverted . Back in the day of my testing of these antis, I had a very hard time beating players I usually beat easily with pips .

More training ,.... but if you lose against a weak attacker, remember, it is not easy , especially at the stage you are in ,....

On a side note, personally and seeing how the new ball performs with these antis, I do not see much advantage now to making the change to flanti,....If the change was huge in benefits,...ok,.. but it seems what you get in return is very little,....

I think staying with pips and learn to twiddle more and pivot for the fh attack is paramount,...as you have to do this already, whether with pips or anti,.... so the change to anti is too expensive for the results you get ,.....

Anyway, I wish you well in your adventure :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2019, 02:53 
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Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
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Location: Cudahy, WI, USA
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Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Scandal 1.2
Getting coaching to help with this change has been invaluable. It's allowed me to get on a bit of a fast track in learning how best to handle different shots. We've worked a bit on fast dead balls and I've come up with a couple of different solutions. One, a bit of a side swipe motion where I move forward across the bottom side of the ball with a short motion. What that does is, takes a lot of the pace off the ball and allows me to drop the ball short so the next one cannot be attack. Then I mix that in with a counter attack back into their body. One of the players I've been playing matches with has a hardbat forehand and a backhand that is mostly used for blocking, with a little soft spinning. The first few matches against him were pretty rough, but on Wednesday this week I beat him 3-1, and he admitted that I'd found good counters to his fast flat serves with those tactics. My biggest struggle is getting used to how much to bump slow, spinny balls so they don't drop short. That, and losing the tendency I have to still use an active wrist on some shots. I need to play more conservatively and focus less on putting the ball in low percentage (for me) to hit spots. After not quite a month in my anti journey (a very short time) my results against some of the 2000 level players at the clubs is about the same as with pips. From what I've experienced so far, I see a potentially large difference between the frictionless anti and long pips. With the long pips, I had more ability to manipulate the spin myself. So yes, I will miss that. However, what I'm losing there, I'm making up for with a better ability to manipulate placement. I can choose to drop balls short, push hard into the body long, and punch attacks with a very high amount of accuracy and consistency. With the long pips, I felt like it was very difficult to keep the ball short against good players who weren't troubled by the spin off the pips. With anti, I have that in my arsenal now. And the spin reversal is noticeably increased. Also, as someone who likes to attack with the backhand, I've already found that the percentage that I'm hitting is higher, and again, this is after only about a month. Using a completely stiff, firm wrist and a hard downward movement, I can punch multiple balls in a row wherever I want. Again, I give a lot of credit to the coaching sessions and drills that I've been able to do.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1667
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Scandal 1.2


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2019, 03:02 
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Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
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Blade: Juic Hinoki One Ply
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BH: Scandal
This is where Seemiller grip has an advantage. I use Scandal on the backside but I have an instant choice of anti or inverted just by rolling the forearm. I can loop, roll, push, block or kill with inverted on the backside. :)


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2019, 03:27 
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A few of techniques I've learned from long-time anti players (~USA1900) at my club:

1) Anti is fantastic for sending very low, very short, 'zero energy' serves just over the net. To center or net posts. Tends to cause the opponent to lunge and pop up the second ball.

2) BH fake topspin drive of any decent velocity frequently causes the opponent to misjudge the spin as friendly, familiar inverted topspin and either hit into the net, or better :devil: , into their own side of the table.

3) Sideswipe drive.. try it!


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2019, 05:09 
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Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
Do you feel lucky (young) punk?
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007, 12:57
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Backspin serves can be hit pretty hard with anti. backspin is turned into your topspin! :)


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019, 01:07 
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Very true,....I liked to attack backspin with anti,... I liked to block short with reversal,... but still, I see little advantage if we compare with effective pips like Tm / GD / D. Techs / BT .....

The new ball makes the pips / anti play much , much worse,.... so the key thing at a high level is to twiddle,period.

if you are forced to twiddle, there is little point in changing to anti ,... I do not say the flanti game is useless, I say the results are not huge compared to the pips play ,....


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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2019, 12:49 
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Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
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Location: Cudahy, WI, USA
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Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Scandal 1.2
Thanks for all the tips! :)

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1667
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Scandal 1.2


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2020, 05:59 
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Darth Pips
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007, 03:59
Posts: 4544
Location: Cudahy, WI, USA
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 89 times
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH: DMS Scandal 1.2
Got my first tournament with the Scandal coming up this weekend. Have been really sick lately so I've missed a couple of practice sessions. But, I have gotten in a few more lessons, and the training is going really well. It's just going to come down to my ability to put points together outside of the drill format. The couple of matches I've played, I have been getting better and better. Also been working on shortening my forehand and committing to a closer to the table, off the bounce style that is more controlled. What I've really enjoyed is how easy serve returns are with the anti. I think it's safe to say, better serve returns than I've ever gotten with any long pip. It just feels so much more controllable. I'm also getting pretty adept at attacking with the Scandal too. Where I still get myself into trouble is my hands can be too active, at times, when blocking. I'm still un-learning the chop block strokes I used extensively with long pips. Holding the bat soft, yet steady, I can get some really great effects from the Scandal. I will try to take some videos at the tournament to see how I'm coming along and to show my coach. It's been a lot of fun to learn, I just want to see what progress I've made so far.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1667
Blade: Dr Neubauer Matador
FH Rubber: Tibhar Evolution MX-P 1.9
BH Rubber: DMS Scandal 1.2


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