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PostPosted: 19 Feb 2020, 20:12 
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Hi,

I play against this Veteran player - A Lefty, in his 50s. with excellent speed, agility, and movement, for his age ... He's primarily a FH hitter, and extremely consistent at that ... He can hit almost any type of ball , from anywhere on the table, to anywhere on the table... Has excellent table and spin sense.. Does not have much of a back-hand hitor loop, but has a crushing BH jab, against any right-handed top-spin, into his BH... If I (or anyone else), top-spins to his FH side, he simply counter hits it off, hard... On push, he does not put a lot of spin, so I don't get much to work with, being an LP player.. .. I feel, the only strategy that works against him, is to hit / loop down-the-line/parallel (From my BH to his BH or from my FH to his FH ... Once again - He's a lefty)... For some reason, he's not good at counter/blocking those. .. However, it's not always possible for me to do that consistently ...

Another thing, he do against me, is serve half-long or short, really wide to my FH... At times, with side-spin (ball spinning away from me), and at time, with lil or no spin... If I loop back into his BH, it's crushed with a down-the-line BH jab, or if it's even a bit of a high loop or popped-up push, he'll turn-around to his FH, and bang it..

Any suggestions and/or strategies against this type of a player ... ?

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Black Knight 7 Blade Palio Ak-47 Red Max 45° - 47° Max (Black) Dawei 388D OX (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)
Setup 6 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2020, 01:22 
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It's really difficult to play against this kind of player (hitter) using LP and more if it's left handed.

Serve: try mixing long & short serve with LP or inverted in parallel to his BH, mix also with backspin & no backspin, if long more near the corner better if short more near the side line the better.

Playing: try using your inverted rubber to chop and not to return high balls, if possible not bouncing higher than the net. When he top spin the chop you can use the LP to generate backspin but remember the key here is low balls & consistency. When he moves to his left side to a attack with top spin he lefts all his right side free you can do a surprise stroke choping or looping here.


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2020, 04:01 
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merlin el mago wrote:
It's really difficult to play against this kind of player (hitter) using LP and more if it's left handed.

Serve: try mixing long & short serve with LP or inverted in parallel to his BH, mix also with backspin & no backspin, if long more near the corner better if short more near the side line the better.


Yes, I already do serve long or short to his BH, and it works, at times ....

merlin el mago wrote:
Playing: try using your inverted rubber to chop and not to return high balls, if possible not bouncing higher than the net. When he top spin the chop you can use the LP to generate backspin but remember the key here is low balls & consistency. When he moves to his left side to a attack with top spin he lefts all his right side free you can do a surprise stroke choping or looping here.
Yes, I have a very small margin for any error... Anything remotely high, spin or no spin, he'll simply thwack it... Unless, ofcourse I chop back his top-spins, and even with topspin, he'll mix-up the intensity of speed and spin..

The one silver lining is that now, I've started blocking/returning, quite a few of his smashes.. But, this is mostly passively, more as a reflex reaction, rather than a proper stroke.... However, most of them land high enough, for him to smash right back ..

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Black Knight 7 Blade Palio Ak-47 Red Max 45° - 47° Max (Black) Dawei 388D OX (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)
Setup 6 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2020, 07:51 
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It's very hard to say anything without knowing how you play. Are you mainly blocking? Do you prefer to chop from distance? Do you use different strategies against different styles of play or will you play the same game no matter the opponent?

Personally I'm always aggressive with my pips unless I encounter a good looper (I live for those games) that will pretty much loop any ball that comes her/his direction. I encounter quite a lot of SP hitters and my solution is to be even more aggressive than them (using my inverted a lot more than my LP). Hard work but it can be done. Having a lot of different serves also helps as this will allow you to setup the play that you want. Don't let the opponent dictate the game play (unless they loop which is a wonderful thing).


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2020, 13:55 
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Good spin sense, good movement, good power and consistency. Seems like he is simply a more experienced player really (no offense).

I'm a hitter myself, and I understand you about playing against an unfamiliar style. Personally, I have as much trouble with choppers as you do with hitters lol.

Try to keep all your shots low. I know its harder on you, but flat hitting has an even lower margin for error. Anything bouncing close to or below net height is impossible to hit hard. Hitters usually have good momentum, so if you give the same returns over and over, it will just compound on you. If you manage to force him into looping mode, don't keep chopping, counter, his loops are usually not very spinny.Back away if you have to, don't try to got tit for tat on momentum, that's a hitter's game. A drop shot to the forehand (LP'er all seem to be good at this) followed by a long ball (doesn't matter what type) to the backhand also works, breaks up the momentum.

I also remember playing a veru frustrating match against a LP blocker. She could return a smash mid-short. Not sure if its easy to do consistently, but certainly breaks up the momentum.

As Marty said, attacking first is a cure for everything.


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2020, 18:13 
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mart1nandersson wrote:
It's very hard to say anything without knowing how you play. Are you mainly blocking? Do you prefer to chop from distance? Do you use different strategies against different styles of play or will you play the same game no matter the opponent?


I have a mixed style of LP play ... I don't think I can be slotted into a particular style of LP play... Against some players, I will play close to the table, and against some players, I will move a bit away from the table, and chop with LP ... I don't usually chop with the inverted side ... I also twiddle while pushing, as well as blocking (when close to the table) ... I will also twiddle and hit with the inverted on the BH.. Against most players, I'm also pretty comfortable receiving serves, using the inverted... I will also loop/top-spin, or hit from the FH.. However, my top-spinning is pretty erratic... My biggest drawback is footwork, my tennis-elbow, and chronic insomnia ...

Also, it's not that I've never been able to beat this guy I have done so, in the past, and still do (but not as often as I used to)... Since we play each other very regularly, I know his game.. But, for the past couple of months, he's been coached, and since, adapted to my game/strategy... Now, all I'm looking for is a different strategy, to once again, beat him consistently ..

mart1nandersson wrote:
Personally I'm always aggressive with my pips unless I encounter a good looper (I live for those games) that will pretty much loop any ball that comes her/his direction. I encounter quite a lot of SP hitters and my solution is to be even more aggressive than them (using my inverted a lot more than my LP). Hard work but it can be done. Having a lot of different serves also helps as this will allow you to setup the play that you want. Don't let the opponent dictate the game play (unless they loop which is a wonderful thing).


I don't, generally hit with the side LP (I'm trying to, but it's very inconsistent/erratic.. ) ... Aggressive LP pushing, especially against no-spin/low-spin balls, makes the ball the just fly-off long, most of the times ... Yeah, lately whats been happening is that he's dictation the game .. The one thing, he's started doing with me, time-and-again, is serving short and wide to my FH, if I return it to his FH (even half-long), he'll topspin it to my BH, and if I return it to his BH, he'll usually turn-around and simply bash it, back to my FH side... The only thing that works is if I top-spin it back to his FH, which is a difficult shot..

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Black Knight 7 Blade Palio Ak-47 Red Max 45° - 47° Max (Black) Dawei 388D OX (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)
Setup 6 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2020, 18:56 
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- bend your knees, maintain a net level look as much as you can...
- a golden rule; chop long...parallel or cross but chop really long..to the white line, to the end of the table.
- as much as cut the first ball with inverted, then go on to cut with lp and remember to cut long.
- which side of him is weaker? fh..or bh?.. exploit it...cut long again and again on this side, play on this side compulsively...press him, compress him...
- with inverted, cut the hell out of the ball, cut long and really hard
- slow, short no spin serves, long heavy back spin and side spin serves according to his waiting position...exploit!


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2020, 20:19 
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deva sarjan wrote:
- bend your knees, maintain a net level look as much as you can...
- a golden rule; chop long...parallel or cross but chop really long..to the white line, to the end of the table.
- as much as cut the first ball with inverted, then go on to cut with lp and remember to cut long.
- which side of him is weaker? fh..or bh?.. exploit it...cut long again and again on this side, play on this side compulsively...press him, compress him...
- with inverted, cut the hell out of the ball, cut long and really hard
- slow, short no spin serves, long heavy back spin and side spin serves according to his waiting position...exploit!


Thanks for the tips ... For some reason, most of my chops (no matter which setup I use), land either half-long or short, and high'ish ...This happens during match-play only, and not much during practice ..

I must admit, more often that not, I don't bend my kness at all ..

His BH is certainly his weak side, and he does really well to turn-around to whack the ball using his FH, at the slightest given opportunity .. His BH side is indeed, where I try to cram him .. Another issue is that he uses a rather old/dead'ish Donic Sonex JP Gold rubber, which gives back some rather odd sort of balls .. Like, if he plays a sort of a BH flick, the ball keeps very low with a sinking trajectory.. Most players dump it in the net .... From what I know of the JP Sonex Gold, it's supposed to be a very spinny rubber, and is also pretty spin senstive .. However, this guy's BH seems to be impervious to most spin or speed.

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Black Knight 7 Blade Palio Ak-47 Red Max 45° - 47° Max (Black) Dawei 388D OX (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)
Setup 6 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)


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PostPosted: 20 Feb 2020, 23:50 
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If uses and old inverted possible now is dead becoming an anti.


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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2020, 00:09 
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A really boring but useful drill that I do with my coach quite often is LP vs LP in order to improve the feeling against no spin. We do BH to BH and every second hit I'm supposed to hit a little bit harder and then the other hit at maybe 50%. Maybe no quick fix but it's helped me a lot.


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PostPosted: 21 Feb 2020, 03:52 
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mart1nandersson wrote:
A really boring but useful drill that I do with my coach quite often is LP vs LP in order to improve the feeling against no spin. We do BH to BH and every second hit I'm supposed to hit a little bit harder and then the other hit at maybe 50%. Maybe no quick fix but it's helped me a lot.


makes sense, I guess ...

_________________
Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Black Knight 7 Blade Palio Ak-47 Red Max 45° - 47° Max (Black) Dawei 388D OX (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)
Setup 6 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)


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PostPosted: 22 Feb 2020, 05:06 
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What about seriously practicing with a reversed bat, to get used to twiddling?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 23 Feb 2020, 04:11 
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iskandar taib wrote:
What about seriously practicing with a reversed bat, to get used to twiddling?

Iskandar


Already twiddle ..

The purpose of this post is to get suggestions for strategy (with possible setup, steps), against this particular player... I'm pretty well aware of my short-comings in terms of technique, and improving on those, is a constant WIP

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Black Knight 7 Blade Palio Ak-47 Red Max 45° - 47° Max (Black) Dawei 388D OX (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)
Setup 6 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2020, 01:57 
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https://www.experttabletennis.com/how-to-beat-flat-hitters/


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PostPosted: 27 Feb 2020, 13:47 
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merlin el mago wrote:


Thanks ...

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Setup 1 : Donic Defplay Senso V3 Blade Palio AK-47 Blue Max (Black) Yinhe Neptune 0.6mm (Red)
Setup 2 : GKI Euro XX Blade Xiom Vega Europe Max (Black) Bomb Talent OX (Red)
Setup 3 : XVT Hinoki Balsa Carbon Blade 729 Focus III Snipe 40° Max (Black) Dawei 388D-1 OX (Red)
Setup 4 : XVT Black Knight 7 Blade Palio Ak-47 Red Max 45° - 47° Max (Black) Dawei 388D OX (Red)
Setup 5 : Butterfly Joyner-H Blade (Black Metal Tag) Palio AK-47 Yellow Max (Black) Yasaka Mark V Max (Red)
Setup 6 : 729 C-5 Blade Reactor Corbor Max (Black) Palio CK531A 0.6mm (Red)


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