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 Post subject: Long pips versus Anti
PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 07:16 
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I have found the new ball has made my long pip game far less effective. Even dtec ox isn’t as effective. I have tried to develop a more attacking game with the long pips but just can’t find one that you can hit with has control and with chops causes trouble for the opponent. I know I’ve been looking for the holy grail but the new ball has made all my long pips (I’ve tried well over 30) less effective. I’ve been looking at the anti thread and there are many players with the thought that anti can be far more distruptive than long pips and with easy control and positive attacking possibilities. Has any of you long pips players tried the anti and what are your views now on long pips v anti with the new ball


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 20:05 
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TTnightmare wrote:
I have found the new ball has made my long pip game far less effective. Even dtec ox isn’t as effective. I have tried to develop a more attacking game with the long pips but just can’t find one that you can hit with has control and with chops causes trouble for the opponent. I know I’ve been looking for the holy grail but the new ball has made all my long pips (I’ve tried well over 30) less effective. I’ve been looking at the anti thread and there are many players with the thought that anti can be far more distruptive than long pips and with easy control and positive attacking possibilities. Has any of you long pips players tried the anti and what are your views now on long pips v anti with the new ball


I am definitely not that good right now with either but you can check my YouTube for direct video comparisons etc. I am still finding my game (mostly going off my knees physical condition) but in short I agree with most of what I've read on this forum, which is that for at the table play the Frictionless Antis are king generally speaking. Quite easy to adjust too as well.

I'll be trying to play more matches and film them so you can see the journey if you want to follow my YouTube channel. But for a decent lvl of play from me it might be a while before I can get back to my old standard playing with this style.

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viewtopic.php?f=58&t=32572


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2021, 23:29 
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I've been advocating this for a while. If you like to play close to the table defense, frictionless anti gives significantly more spin reversal and "funk" than any long pip can. And with practice you can learn to attack with it. Some people will adjust quickly, others take more time. For me it's taken a few months, because I had to also change from a defensive blade to a stiff carbon blade, which also affected my forehand. It's definitely been worth it.

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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 00:04 
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dwruck wrote:
I've been advocating this for a while. If you like to play close to the table defense, frictionless anti gives significantly more spin reversal and "funk" than any long pip can. And with practice you can learn to attack with it. Some people will adjust quickly, others take more time. For me it's taken a few months, because I had to also change from a defensive blade to a stiff carbon blade, which also affected my forehand. It's definitely been worth it.


While I agree with the point you make I wouldn't say significant.....
1. I think it highly depends on the FAnti and sponge size.
2. Dtecs rivals most with a chop block imo. Even blocks give similar reversal at times.

But the difference being its WAY easier with the FAnti. Much more margain for error

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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 01:26 
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My couple of trials with anti were complete failures. I blame the user (me) and the lack of a coach.

Have you tried learning to twiddle? I always am trying to learn to hit with LP, but it is always a low consistency shot.


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PostPosted: 17 Jul 2021, 06:36 
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The most effective players of long pips in my league do twiddle. I’ve tried it but can’t seem to get the bat back into position in time also deciding when to twiddle can also be a problem for me. It certainly doesn’t come naturally and lacking patience doesn’t help


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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2021, 03:26 
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TTnightmare wrote:
The most effective players of long pips in my league do twiddle. I’ve tried it but can’t seem to get the bat back into position in time also deciding when to twiddle can also be a problem for me. It certainly doesn’t come naturally and lacking patience doesn’t help


The best way I've found to learn this is to keep a bat handy and practice away from the table. While watching TV for instance, or while talking on the phone. Also while you are sitting and watching TT at the club becomes a good time to practice this technique :rofl: . It takes time for it to become automatic, and that comes by doing the motion over and over again. If you have to think about it, it isn't ready for the match play yet.

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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2021, 12:14 
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I've tried frictionless anti a few times as well. I found that the angle of the bat is just too critical, and attacking backspin is harder because you just can't brush the ball. So I've gone back to LP OX... I always seem to return to Dtecs.

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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2021, 12:52 
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haggisv wrote:
I've tried frictionless anti a few times as well. I found that the angle of the bat is just too critical, and attacking backspin is harder because you just can't brush the ball. So I've gone back to LP OX... I always seem to return to Dtecs.


My experience is similar, and I'd add that with frictionless anti, you have to be super aggressive. If you get a push, you have to attack; otherwise, you're in trouble on the next shot. With long pips, there's a lot more variation possible, and it results in more errors on the part of your opponent from misjudging the spin on the ball.

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PostPosted: 25 Jul 2021, 22:00 
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FL antis do not resolve the problem of the ban on FL pips.Yes, people are fooled into the reversal these rubbers offer.At high levles pure reversal is nothing and FL antis limit the defender a lot,however , with pips you can add more variety in strokes and strategy.

I do not say the FL antis are so bad , I just say they are overhyped and they are definitely not the best answer fo close to the table defence.Those who defend the FL anti world may change their mind when they reach a high level .

Yes, I admit , there are a few exceptions out there like in any sport but you can count them with just a few fingers of your hand .


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PostPosted: 27 Jul 2021, 05:48 
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charmander defender wrote:
Yes, I admit , there are a few exceptions out there like in any sport but you can count them with just a few fingers of your hand .

There are also only a few exceptions of people who defend with LN ox at the table so you can't use that as an argument for either rubber.

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PostPosted: 30 Jul 2021, 02:52 
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PostPosted: 30 Jul 2021, 03:28 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
haggisv wrote:
I've tried frictionless anti a few times as well. I found that the angle of the bat is just too critical, and attacking backspin is harder because you just can't brush the ball. So I've gone back to LP OX... I always seem to return to Dtecs.


My experience is similar, and I'd add that with frictionless anti, you have to be super aggressive. If you get a push, you have to attack; otherwise, you're in trouble on the next shot. With long pips, there's a lot more variation possible, and it results in more errors on the part of your opponent from misjudging the spin on the ball.


I have to disagree a bit here. While I do think that looking to attack a push if you are playing with frictionless anti is very effective, it is hardly the only tactic. It all depends on the length of the push. If the push is long, past the end of the table, I will generally look to attack. However, if the push is shorter over the table, giving it a gentle nudge to get it over the net and drop it very short is extremely effective. That is possible to do on longer pushes as well, but more difficult. It is a bit easier if you can master the touch on a side swipe shot where you catch the back/side of the ball and go forward to redirect the ball's energy.

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 10:02 
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dwruck wrote:
TraditionalTradesman wrote:
haggisv wrote:
I've tried frictionless anti a few times as well. I found that the angle of the bat is just too critical, and attacking backspin is harder because you just can't brush the ball. So I've gone back to LP OX... I always seem to return to Dtecs.


My experience is similar, and I'd add that with frictionless anti, you have to be super aggressive. If you get a push, you have to attack; otherwise, you're in trouble on the next shot. With long pips, there's a lot more variation possible, and it results in more errors on the part of your opponent from misjudging the spin on the ball.


I have to disagree a bit here. While I do think that looking to attack a push if you are playing with frictionless anti is very effective, it is hardly the only tactic. It all depends on the length of the push. If the push is long, past the end of the table, I will generally look to attack. However, if the push is shorter over the table, giving it a gentle nudge to get it over the net and drop it very short is extremely effective. That is possible to do on longer pushes as well, but more difficult. It is a bit easier if you can master the touch on a side swipe shot where you catch the back/side of the ball and go forward to redirect the ball's energy.


That makes sense, and I should've said it more clearly: what I mean is that because long pips create more "funk" than frictionless anti, they are less predictable, and that means you have more options. On pushes, you can do a short push back, do an aggressive fast push, sideswipe, roll, hit, bump the ball back for a short drop shot or do a fake topspin shot. All of these options create the potential for lots of errors on your opponent's part (whether outright misses or loose balls). Frictionless anti seems more one-dimensional in this respect.

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2021, 17:31 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:

That makes sense, and I should've said it more clearly: what I mean is that because long pips create more "funk" than frictionless anti, they are less predictable, and that means you have more options. On pushes, you can do a short push back, do an aggressive fast push, sideswipe, roll, hit, bump the ball back for a short drop shot or do a fake topspin shot. All of these options create the potential for lots of errors on your opponent's part (whether outright misses or loose balls). Frictionless anti seems more one-dimensional in this respect.


TT, I fully agree with you that the long pimples is a more versatile covering then the anti. Now a bit away from this topic. Are you still happy with Hellfire X on Shake Defence?


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