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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2021, 21:21 
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Hi folks

Something I struggle with in my game is a fast loop. Perhaps a "loop-kill".

My loops are pretty solid; they're always quite spinny and controllable, and I can place them quite well.

Over the table though, in particular, if my opponent pops up a serve or a push from my LPs, I'll often miss off the end of the table. I also struggle to use any kind of fast rubber for the same reason.

This video, starting at 23 seconds, gives an indication of what my loop looks like:



There you can see one loop vs. backspin (poorly executed, usually my bat doesn't finish there - but you get the gist) and the next one vs. topspin where I'm horribly manually adjusting my bat angle to try and keep the ball on the table.

What do I need to do with my stroke to develop a fast loop/loop-kill?

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PostPosted: 07 Oct 2021, 23:34 
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I believe its what I have been told by a few people now....Forward!

I am often even worse than you in these particular clips. Too upright and swing too vertical. They will likely tell you the same based only on these clips, lean more forward, swing little more horizontal and through the ball

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2021, 00:11 
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Yeah, I've been given similar advice in the past, I'm just not really sure what that means/looks like.

When you say "through the ball", do you mean a more flat (less brush) contact?

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2021, 00:39 
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dunc wrote:
Yeah, I've been given similar advice in the past, I'm just not really sure what that means/looks like.

When you say "through the ball", do you mean a more flat (less brush) contact?


When they show/tell me all they want me to do is change the swing so it starts not so far down but ends in same place in front of face kinda thing. They don't want me to change contact point

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2021, 01:51 
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Your stroke is very nice. But for a loopkill the stroke is forward. Your stoke ends "up". Refernce video-Ma Long (or numerous others).


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2021, 02:51 
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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2021, 05:19 
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Agree with the other posters here to go start the stroke higher and go more foreward. Another thing you can try to get more arm speed and improve timing is to have a short stop after the backswing before starting the foreward part of the stroke.

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2021, 11:36 
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you should power forward from your legs - in some shots your left leg even comes off the ground.

Hit the side/top of the ball, not the back. This means most of the chop doesn't affect you. Pivot your waist.

edit: just spotted something else. You take the ball very late, when it is dropping. When you are looking for a loop kill, try take it just before the top of the bounce - means you are powering over the ball, much easier than trying to lift it and arc it down


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2021, 17:30 
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Thanks for all of the advice here folks.

Gathering up your tips, it looks like I need to think about...

  • "Go more forward" -> This is something I struggle with. If I go more forward, it feels like my finish position is almost below head height, which surely can't be right
  • Take the ball at the top of the bounce -> Something I can certainly do, but I need to practice. I'm used to being away from the table where this isn't always possible, so it feels natural to let the ball drop then brush up the back of it
  • Transfer weight/pivot to left side

vanjr wrote:
Refernce video-Ma Long (or numerous others).

I've looked at countless videos of Ma Long. His stroke looks almost entirely different to mine. If you pause this video at 4 seconds, his elbow finishes way higher and his bat is almost vertical. I'd love to have a FH loop like Ma Long, but I might be better off trying to emulate a European player with a stroke similar to mine?

magnuseffect wrote:
Another thing you can try to get more arm speed and improve timing is to have a short stop after the backswing before starting the foreward part of the stroke.

This is a cool idea. Something I can do, and do occasionally do in practice. I've seen Hou Yingchao use it to great effect - a tiny pause before he unleashes a massive swing.

PRW wrote:
you should power forward from your legs - in some shots your left leg even comes off the ground.

I've just noticed that, good spot. I think I only do that against backspin, but either way, it's not helpful. I'll keep an eye on it.

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2021, 19:00 
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dunc wrote:
"Go more forward" -> This is something I struggle with. If I go more forward, it feels like my finish position is almost below head height, which surely can't be right


The end position should hardly change I think.

Just think about where your hand starts right as your accelerate. Rather than it start below your knee you want it at your knee or even just above. So overall the full swing is not as vertical, not sure how to explain it properly lol

Hope that helps though

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PostPosted: 08 Oct 2021, 23:41 
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For comparison purposes, you can see my "vs. topspin" stroke at the very start of this video:


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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 09 Oct 2021, 01:23 
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As I see it there were already a lot of good comments here.
I would prioritize the legs. The fact that you're on one leg very often is not good :) Eve when you're not on one leg it still seems that the left leg is almost weightless through the shot.
If you want power you'll need both legs - that's for sure! :)
If you try going more forward without fixing the legs you'll probably just swing more and stress the shoulder more.
The power, as I see it, should come from the ground: legs, core, hand, ball. Fix your legs and then it'll be easier to get more power.

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PostPosted: 09 Oct 2021, 01:30 
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How exactly do I "use" the legs though. What are we talking about here? Transferring weight from the right side to the left side during the swing?

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg


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PostPosted: 09 Oct 2021, 04:04 
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dunc wrote:
How exactly do I "use" the legs though. What are we talking about here? Transferring weight from the right side to the left side during the swing?

Yep, the weight transfer from right to left will help you stabilize the left leg also it should help you make the topspin movement more forward-oriented and not so much upward as it is now. I feel like the shot transfer is like this: you get power from the right leg, then, while transferring to the left, basically in the middle of the process, when you have the most forward momentum, you hit the ball and then continue the weight transfer to the left leg but already stopping the acceleration. I'm not very strong in either the theory or the practice but this is my vision of how the process should be :)

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PostPosted: 09 Oct 2021, 07:52 
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this loop is too extreme - I have shortened the backswing a great deal and widened my stance- but you can see the weight transfer



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