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PostPosted: 05 Jun 2024, 15:33 
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How much does sponge thickness affect spin and speed for spinny short pips? I have been using Spinfire 2.1 on one side and 1.9 on the other, and I am not sure I can tell the difference. The 2.1 might be a tad spinnier, but not 100% sure, and it doesn't seem to make a practical difference in my game. One reason I ask is I want to get my hands on the new Spinfire Soft, allegedly with a bit more spin and control, and am trying to decide how thick the sponge should be.

Any wisdom from the group?


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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2024, 15:42 
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The problem with short pips and softer, thinner sponge is that the sponge can bottom out on harder hits which alters ball trajectory in unexpected ways. This affects short pips more than inverted rubber because short pips strokes tend to be flatter.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2024, 16:20 
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nathanso wrote:
The problem with short pips and softer, thinner sponge is that the sponge can bottom out on harder hits which alters ball trajectory in unexpected ways. This affects short pips more than inverted rubber because short pips strokes tend to be flatter.


Thanks - makes sense. I noticed Spinfire doesn't even come in sponge thickness less than 1.5, so I guess the manufacturers are protecting us.


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2024, 07:59 
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The sponge has less to do with generating spin than does the top sheet. Yes, thinner sponge can cause bottoming out with flat shots, but it's the top part of the short pips that creates the spin. This is especially most evident when brush looping underspin. Also, I have found it much easier to lift underspin with short pips that have a horizontal arrangement ( Andro Blowfish, Spinfire)), versus a vertical arrangement (Nittaku Moristo or Sonic AR), but Moristo and Sonic AR seem less sensitive to blocking incoming topspin, than does Blowfish. There is always a trade off.


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2024, 13:42 
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funkVfunk wrote:
The sponge has less to do with generating spin than does the top sheet. Yes, thinner sponge can cause bottoming out with flat shots, but it's the top part of the short pips that creates the spin. This is especially most evident when brush looping underspin. Also, I have found it much easier to lift underspin with short pips that have a horizontal arrangement ( Andro Blowfish, Spinfire)), versus a vertical arrangement (Nittaku Moristo or Sonic AR), but Moristo and Sonic AR seem less sensitive to blocking incoming topspin, than does Blowfish. There is always a trade off.


Good insight. One reason I am curious is that Spinfire is coming out with softer sponge, so I am intrigued how this will affect things. Theory would be that it might increase dwell time and thus spin, but theory and practice do not alway converge. Also might make flat hitting different, but not sure how.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2024, 00:59 
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Hi,
I've been playing with Spinfire on my forehand for about a year now. I started with 1.8mm and then switched to 1.5mm.
Some weeks ago I changed my blade (to Arbalest Bogen) and I think the Bogen might like a softer rubber. Therefore I ordered the new Spinfire Soft (in 1.8mm) and tried it yesterday for the first time.
It is much softer (approx 10°) and of course slower. It has no annoying nonlinearities like Tensor effects but it's still quite fast.
"Topspins" are significantly easier but don't have more spin than with the normal Spinfire. Blocks and shots/flat hits went well but I think are also easier to return because it's slower and even closer to regular rubbers. It has a superb control and is much easier to play than it's harder version.
All in all I felt pretty comfortable with it and will play a few more trainings with it.
Cheers
Holger


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2024, 15:34 
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H0L6 wrote:
Hi,
I've been playing with Spinfire on my forehand for about a year now. I started with 1.8mm and then switched to 1.5mm.
Some weeks ago I changed my blade (to Arbalest Bogen) and I think the Bogen might like a softer rubber. Therefore I ordered the new Spinfire Soft (in 1.8mm) and tried it yesterday for the first time.
It is much softer (approx 10°) and of course slower. It has no annoying nonlinearities like Tensor effects but it's still quite fast.
"Topspins" are significantly easier but don't have more spin than with the normal Spinfire. Blocks and shots/flat hits went well but I think are also easier to return because it's slower and even closer to regular rubbers. It has a superb control and is much easier to play than it's harder version.
All in all I felt pretty comfortable with it and will play a few more trainings with it.
Cheers
Holger


Thanks for the review, Holger. I am thinking of using the soft on my backhand in 1.8 and the original on my forehand in 2.1. I think a bit more control for returning serve and spinning in backhands would help, and keeping the faster, flat-hitting forehand. Also just read about Outkill, which is also supposed to be soft and more control, but don't know much else about it.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2024, 18:43 
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allencorn wrote:
H0L6 wrote:
Hi,
I've been playing with Spinfire on my forehand for about a year now. I started with 1.8mm and then switched to 1.5mm.
Some weeks ago I changed my blade (to Arbalest Bogen) and I think the Bogen might like a softer rubber. Therefore I ordered the new Spinfire Soft (in 1.8mm) and tried it yesterday for the first time.
It is much softer (approx 10°) and of course slower. It has no annoying nonlinearities like Tensor effects but it's still quite fast.
"Topspins" are significantly easier but don't have more spin than with the normal Spinfire. Blocks and shots/flat hits went well but I think are also easier to return because it's slower and even closer to regular rubbers. It has a superb control and is much easier to play than it's harder version.
All in all I felt pretty comfortable with it and will play a few more trainings with it.
Cheers
Holger


Thanks for the review, Holger. I am thinking of using the soft on my backhand in 1.8 and the original on my forehand in 2.1. I think a bit more control for returning serve and spinning in backhands would help, and keeping the faster, flat-hitting forehand. Also just read about Outkill, which is also supposed to be soft and more control, but don't know much else about it.


So you are planning to change your backhand from flanti to short pips? Why so?

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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2024, 14:45 
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GregorTT425 wrote:
So you are planning to change your backhand from flanti to short pips? Why so?


Yea, I played with anti for a long while, and a twiddled a lot, and I realized I enjoyed countering with pips on my backhand, and hitting with pips on my forehand was really good, so I thought I give pips on both sides a try. I could hit with the anti, but I was too inconsistent. The odd shots the anti would produce didn't give good players much trouble. In all honesty, neither does my backhand countering, but for now it is more fun and teaching me things. I will likely go back to anti at some point, as the advantages for returning serve and the occasional odd shot are probably worth it.

That's one reason I am bit interested in Outkill, as some reviews said it is really good at producing no spin balls when contacted lightly, but can produce spin when used with force. Might be a good compromise instead of the anti.


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2024, 17:10 
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allencorn wrote:
GregorTT425 wrote:
So you are planning to change your backhand from flanti to short pips? Why so?


Yea, I played with anti for a long while, and a twiddled a lot, and I realized I enjoyed countering with pips on my backhand, and hitting with pips on my forehand was really good, so I thought I give pips on both sides a try. I could hit with the anti, but I was too inconsistent. The odd shots the anti would produce didn't give good players much trouble. In all honesty, neither does my backhand countering, but for now it is more fun and teaching me things. I will likely go back to anti at some point, as the advantages for returning serve and the occasional odd shot are probably worth it.

That's one reason I am bit interested in Outkill, as some reviews said it is really good at producing no spin balls when contacted lightly, but can produce spin when used with force. Might be a good compromise instead of the anti.


Sounds reasonable! If you think so, it could be interesting to hear about the progress of yours!

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PostPosted: 17 Jun 2024, 14:15 
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GregorTT425 wrote:

Sounds reasonable! If you think so, it could be interesting to hear about the progress of yours!


I'll keep you posted.


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2024, 13:05 
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allencorn said: That's one reason I am bit interested in Outkill, as some reviews said it is really good at producing no spin balls when contacted lightly, but can produce spin when used with force. Might be a good compromise instead of the anti.

I AGREE!! SP does show a growing list of advantages!

By far, the BEST advice I ever got on hitting with SP is as follows: (BTW someone on this forum advised me of this about 10 years ago)

Imagine a ball flying at your paddle. Imagine a black dot in the middle of the ball. This black dot stays right in the middle of the ball, regardless of the spin on the ball. ALWAYS hit below that black dot in the middle of the ball. Of course I only hit under the black dot IF I'm going to hit a flat ball, a top spin, a push or a chop. If I'm blocking, I don't do that.

And knowing that I need to hit under the black dot, I hit with much confidence!

And the under the black dot approach applies to softly hit or hard hit balls.

:Chop: :topspin:


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2024, 13:20 
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And also applies with MP. Hitting softly to medium more times will make floaty balls. Works near and far away from the table too. Hitting too hard will give different result.

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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2024, 13:37 
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that is good thinking rokphish, you have just reminded me that hitting under the middle of the ball also applies when further back from the table. :)


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