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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2008, 18:30 
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I don't know what 804 sheet you tested, the red or black one. I have played with the black 1.5 for two years and with this rubber I come to the same conclusions as you. It's a fast and grippy rubber that is best suited for blocking and hard hitting.
But know I have been playing with the red version for a couple of weeks now and this rubber is really slippery. It is still fast but there is much more spinreversal with blocks and chops. So it depends on wich color you tested.

Overall a very usefull testreport :)


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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2008, 18:57 
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Wow, what an awesome post speedplay, that's fantastic!

This is easily the most comprehensive comparison and guide I've seen, and will no doubt be highly beneficial to anyone considering playing with anti!

I've stickied the post :thumright: :thumright: :thumright:

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PostPosted: 27 Oct 2008, 20:52 
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I think your right about the 804...becaus I only tried the Toni Hold anti and Donic anti 40 so I haven't got much comparison.
Are you going to try any of the new or old Neubauer anties.


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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2008, 23:28 
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This is my experience with the Tibhar Ellen (Def) Black 1.5 and the Joola Toni Hold Red 1.5. I did'nt play with the Donic but the Ellen.

Tibhar Ellen has a very soft top sheet and a very soft sponge. The top sheet has a bit of grip compared to the Toni Hold. My experience with service returns was that you can hit on almost any service, but pushing with this rubber I found to be harder because of the soft top sheet. Blocking on topspin balls is very easy to control because the top sheet and sponge are so soft. Only very slow spins are hard because it is a very absorbent sponge and you will have to put speed in the ball yourself. Defensive chopping with this rubber is also very easy. You can also generate some backspin with chops because of the slight grip of the top sheet. The balls that you chop will come about half way on the court of your opponent. Overall a lot of control and it takes all the energy out of the ball that will make it hard for your component to judge.

Toni Hold has a hard top sheet and very soft sponge. The top sheet is a pretty slick sheet with almost no grip. Service returns are very easy, especially backspin balls can be hit very easily. Blocking on any topspin ball is very easy to control and very good placement because of the soft sponge. All the energy will be taking out of the ball when you block a topspin. The disadvantage of bought these rubbers is that you cannot generate any speed yourself so that you will have to depend on the speed that your opponent put in the ball. Defensive chops are the same as with the Ellen.

Overall both rubbers are very deceptive when it comes to speed but very easy to read because they generate only dead balls. Both rubbers also have lots of control with all the strokes you make. When you can hit with both rubbers the balls will slide on your opponents half of the table and sink very fast. That will make it harder to play against these rubbers.
I think a anti rubber shout be able to generate some spin to be deceptive. Just playing dead balls every time is to easy for your opponent because they will get use to the dead balls. That is why I prefer the 804 because of its hitting abilities and it can generate some spin.

Frame: Tibhar IV-L
Forehand: Nimbus Soft Max.
Backhand: Friendship 804 1.5 (red)


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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2008, 12:34 
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Sebastian Sauer, currently the world's best at-the-table pips blocker, recently tested the Toni Hold Anti (not the Joola version). Here are his comments from Noppen-test.

"The rubber had several positive aspects, however, the bottom line is as a whole it was simply not there.

"On the positive side, it was rather easy to counter and to push the ball into the corners. The anti is easier to play here in my opinion than pips.

"However ultimately this brought me very little. The balls with the anti-top simply weren't very dangerous to the other side, so this did not go well for me against good attackers. Short or medium-length placement of the balls was also difficult.

"Result: I will continue to use pips (at least for the time being)."

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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2008, 12:40 
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Great summary, thanks Berry!

Good feedback from Sebastian Sauer, mynamenotbob! I don't think they'll find an anti that will do it at those levels... it will always be a pip...

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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2008, 20:20 
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Mynamenotbob, do you now what the main difference is between the old and new anti from Toni Hold?


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PostPosted: 30 Oct 2008, 21:52 
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Berry vd velde wrote:
Mynamenotbob, do you now what the main difference is between the old and new anti from Toni Hold?

The anti currently sold by the Toni Hold company is a slick anti similar to the Butterfly Super Anti. There is some controversy over their OX verson of this rubber.

Joola sells a rubber called Toni Hold Anti Topspin that has a very dead black sponge. It's very slow and plays similar to Hallmark Mirage only with slight spin reversal.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2008, 03:00 
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I think a good spin-continuing anti can be made, it will just take time for someone to make it. If nothing shows up in the next couple of years i may have to make my own. My sheet of butterfly super anti is much too grippy and spin-killing for me, 2100 players just eat it alive.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2008, 05:51 
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kagin wrote:
I think a good spin-continuing anti can be made, it will just take time for someone to make it. .


I still have hope. Neubauer may be the microsoft of anti. Version 1 was junk to let the customers pay for R&D. Generation 2 is out as vaporware months before availability. Hopefully version 3 or 4 will actually be good and useful. Maybe haggis can get the ooak forum signed up as a beta test center.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2008, 07:10 
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speedplay wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:

Joola sells a rubber called Toni Hold Anti Topspin that has a very dead black sponge. It's very slow and plays similar to Hallmark Mirage only with slight spin reversal.


See separate tread about this... Not sure if it's the Joola, it is the new 40 and it comes with a black sponge.

http://forum.oneofakindtrading.com.au/v ... 7819#57819

The Joola Toni Hold anti definitely has a black sponge with a tough, weird texture. Not only that, the cut is circular, not square like normal rubbers. A very strange rubber all the way around. I've never seen the sponge supplied with the New 40 as I only bought the ox version.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2008, 15:26 
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kagin wrote:
my sheet of butterfly super anti is much too grippy and spin-killing for me, 2100 players just eat it alive.


that doesn't sound like butterfly super anti. That anti-spin rubber has what is probably the slickest surface of all anti-spin rubbers. i have some myself and i know that plenty of others have posted that it is among the best spin reversal anti-spin rubbers that there are. i know that you stated that you changed the sponge underneath the top sheet on your anti-spin rubber -- could you somehow have inadvertently change the properties of the top sheet (by using heat or some other thing to remove the sponge on the backside)?

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 11:55 
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My sheet of super anti is no different from when it was new, or the super anti that seemiller and seemiller jr are using. (I didn't use heat to remove the sponge, i used solvent and a brush.) With light touch it feels slick, but with force there's immediate grip.

It is however different from the guys who are using decade-old super anti. A local player who has tried almost every anti and long pip available agrees that it's among the least grippy antis, but he also says that it can't compare to traditional long pips for spin continuation.

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2009, 19:06 
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Great thread/review Speedy, it is very helpful and informative.

Reading through this again, i am quite tempted to try Neoanti or Best anti as they seem most like Yasaka anti, has anyone else made anymore direct comparison between any 2 of these 3?

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PostPosted: 23 Jan 2009, 23:55 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
speedplay wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:

Joola sells a rubber called Toni Hold Anti Topspin that has a very dead black sponge. It's very slow and plays similar to Hallmark Mirage only with slight spin reversal.


See separate tread about this... Not sure if it's the Joola, it is the new 40 and it comes with a black sponge.

http://forum.oneofakindtrading.com.au/v ... 7819#57819

The Joola Toni Hold anti definitely has a black sponge with a tough, weird texture. Not only that, the cut is circular, not square like normal rubbers. A very strange rubber all the way around. I've never seen the sponge supplied with the New 40 as I only bought the ox version.


I've seen the new toni hold and used it. It is black, but the rubber with 1mm sponge is very fast so I doubt it's the same. I'll check the texture and let you know, maybe post a picture. The ox has a clear 'sponge'. Something similar to this can be seen on the underside of the 1mm sponge, but this just acts as a glue sheet. *If you're reading this adham the 1st ones a sponge the seconds a glue sheet, honest guvnor :D .

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