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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 06:54 
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makai wrote:
Silver wrote:
Re: Ethan Jin

Looks like a fairly typical modern style loop. Looks a bit more european than asian to me due to the contact.

It's quite common to see this style of loop in younger juniors and cadets. Most players don't really personalise their looping style until they get older (read that as, physically bigger)

It's not a straight arm loop, if that's what you're thinking.


I"m thinking of it being more of Asian to me. Asian Loop isn't just straight arm. If i observed carefully, Euro Loop starts on the side while Asian Loop starts lower and it has more of a wind up stroke.


I thought it was the other way around.

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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 22:12 
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sunflex wrote:
makai wrote:
Silver wrote:
Re: Ethan Jin

Looks like a fairly typical modern style loop. Looks a bit more european than asian to me due to the contact.

It's quite common to see this style of loop in younger juniors and cadets. Most players don't really personalise their looping style until they get older (read that as, physically bigger)

It's not a straight arm loop, if that's what you're thinking.


I"m thinking of it being more of Asian to me. Asian Loop isn't just straight arm. If i observed carefully, Euro Loop starts on the side while Asian Loop starts lower and it has more of a wind up stroke.


I thought it was the other way around.

See Timo Boll and Chen Qi's Loops. You'll see the difference.

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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 01:24 
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One of my beginner club mate is asking - How do I do the Chinese Loop? and Can I use it with my current rubber, Sriver? Or should I change to Chinese rubber like what the Chinese do?

I for one have a European loop and I'm thinking of changing to Chinese because I need to be more quick and aggressive.

What are your thoughts on this?

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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 07:33 
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makai wrote:
One of my beginner club mate is asking - How do I do the Chinese Loop? and Can I use it with my current rubber, Sriver? Or should I change to Chinese rubber like what the Chinese do?

I for one have a European loop and I'm thinking of changing to Chinese because I need to be more quick and aggressive.

What are your thoughts on this?


If I'm said to have a Chinese-type loop; I don't change how I loop for any rubber because that's the way I loop.

I've tried numerous Japanese and European rubbers, they still loop fine. The feedback and feel is somewhat different because of ball bite and relative softness of their rubbers.

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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2009, 23:47 
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Yuzuki, I only realized this after you posted. I see a lot of people using Euro/Jap with Chinese loop. While I do get your point in your post, what I don't get is that why do people with Chinese loop use Bryce (glue era)? Jun Mizutani, Micheal Maze and the list goes on.

Are there any videos available that teaches Chinese style loop? Instructions maybe? The only video I see available is the Yan Sen videos on the site but I don't know Chinese!

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PostPosted: 24 Jul 2009, 08:09 
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Quote:
what I don't get is that why do people with Chinese loop use Bryce (glue era)? Jun Mizutani, Micheal Maze and the list goes on.


Because guys like Mitzutani are all so good that it really doesn't matter what they use -- and because Chinese rubber feels awful to a lot of people who didn't start off using it from a young age, and Japanese players in particular grow up playing with Japanese rubber. Believe it or not, there exist very good Chinese players who only use Butterfly rubber! I know one well who is currently about 120 in the world and who recently beat Chen Weixing. As for Michael Maze, everything he does is pretty much the exact opposite of what Chinese players do and what Chinese coaches teach!

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PostPosted: 26 Jul 2009, 02:23 
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Image
Kinda looks like that except the legs are thinner than that.

Bonus: I found this great deal on 18 mm tables on ebay for you Aussies: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-PRO-SIZE-TAB ... 7C294%3A50

That's $200 AUD. 10 Hrs left.

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PostPosted: 17 Jan 2011, 21:56 
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makai wrote:
How do you differentiate Euro and Chinese BH Loop? A shortened Euro BH Loop looks Chinese....


Don't take my word for this, but I think this is the difference.

Chinese BH loop: More of a cutting stroke, uses speed of stroke to generate the power, like the Chinese FH loop.
2 components: speed of stroke (via lots of wrist motion), angle of bat

Of course I'm going to tell you to reference Ma Long for this one. (EDIT: Or Zhang Jike.)

European BH loop: More of a backhand slap-in-the-face-at-an-angle kind of a motion, and unfortunately, that's the best way I can describe it, lolz. You sorta whip the paddle across the ball.
3 components: Amount of brushing on the ball (spin), amount of driving or flat-hitting through the ball (power) (both previous components depend on angle of bat), speed of swing (determines overall speed of shot). Euro loop also uses some wrist for extra spin, but I'm not sure of a pure euro loop does that.

I think Bastian Steger has a pretty pure Euro loop, especially when he's far from the table. The difference between Euro and Chinese loop is VERY apparent when looping far from the table. Also, many European players use Chinese style loop these days (I think, but I'm not too sure), so try not to get confused when differentiating.

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PostPosted: 31 Dec 2019, 20:24 
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I’m super late to this discussion, but hey I just joined the forum. I don’t know how much has changed from 2011, but as of now I don’t feel that there’s really a Chinese vs European loop. But I do feel that different equipment has different demands. I think the european setup tends to create more power from the equipment (hard blade and high catapult rubber), while chinese equipment (soft blade, tacky sheet with hard sponge) leaves you to create the power using your own body.

I feel that for me personally, using chinese style equipment was better for developing my loop. It encouraged me to engage my full body. Using the faster blade and soft rubber was causing me to hesitate and basically try to keep the catapult from throwing the ball off the table.

Now, I don’t really think fully-extended arm loop belongs to Chinese style and elbow oriented loop belongs to European style. If I’ve correctly positioned myself an arm’s length from the ball, I’m swinging with fully extended arm. If I’m a bit closer to the ball, I’m elbowing it. As long as I use my waist and legs, both loops should be good.


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PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 02:47 
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Actually what I think "belongs to the Chinese style" is the reliance on all-out forehand loop-kills to end points. And the way to get an all-out 100% loop is at full arm's length. So they position themselves appropriately when using this stroke. This is coupled to a short over-the-table game. The Europeans rely more on medium-power elbow loops, until recently at half distance. The use of H3 by the Chinese is because you can get more power out of the rubber IF you can develop the power in the first place.

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PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 16:17 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Actually what I think "belongs to the Chinese style" is the reliance on all-out forehand loop-kills to end points. And the way to get an all-out 100% loop is at full arm's length. So they position themselves appropriately when using this stroke. This is coupled to a short over-the-table game. The Europeans rely more on medium-power elbow loops, until recently at half distance. The use of H3 by the Chinese is because you can get more power out of the rubber IF you can develop the power in the first place.

Iskandar

That makes sense. Using the full-power loop from anywhere at the table seems to be more Chinese style, while a shorter, more quick recovery loop seems to be European style. My coach has always emphasized the full-body full-arm loop on forehand, but he uses more European equipment. When I switched to Hurricane, it felt more natural to use the loop my coach has been teaching me. I suppose once my loop is more fully developed, I will be able to adapt to any equipment.


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PostPosted: 02 Jan 2020, 18:27 
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Another part of the "Chinese formula" is that the H3 must be boosted to "insane levels" to work for International-class players. Probably to lesser levels for non-professionals. As it is, I think that, unboosted, it's too slow for the likes of myself.

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PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 16:11 
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Ok so this was basically my question a few months back and I this i what i feel

European Style Lopping = More flt contact, therefore speed is good and European style looping deals with putting jsut enough topspin so that it clears the net and lands on the table

I always wanted to learn table tennis based on Chinese principles (which is very hard to find in India). One day at my club a player comes and his equipment was a basic Chinese beginners equipment (Stiga all round wood with Hurricane 3 neo and 729 friendship rubber) and his loops were very spiny and fast.
He told me that he had trained under a Chinese coach when he was in singalong, and his coach always emphasized on spin. In-fact he told me that while learning looping Chinese style try to spin the ball so much that it should bounce just after the net. This means a pure brush action, but then how do you get power ?. This is where the Chinese dominate. If you see Chinese players they use their entire body to generate speed and spin; so even when they brush the ball, its so fast that the ball is extremely spiny and has speed to it and its very hard to block.


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PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 18:30 
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There was someone else (or it might have been you) posting a little while ago about the Chinese style involving brush loops, and his coach asking him to learn to loop the ball so it lands close to the net. I suspect there's a misunderstanding here. The Chinese DON'T loop so that the ball lands close to the net, not in competition anyhow. The "loop close to the net" thing is an EXERCISE. It's not meant to be your PLAYING STYLE. Your coach makes you do it TO LEARN HOW TO HIT AND CONTROL SHORT, SPINNY LOOPS. This doesn't mean a fast shot (though it does mean a high racket speed). In fact, the next step is to add more power and more speed and perhaps a thicker contact, with the ball ending up near the baseline. You COULD hit such a shot with less spin, but it won't be (or rather, can't be) as fast and a shot with all the added spin you've learned to make in the first step. Which is why they make you learn the first thing in the first place.

Where, exactly, is "Singalong"? :lol:

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PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 20:06 
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iskandar taib wrote:
There was someone else (or it might have been you) posting a little while ago about the Chinese style involving brush loops, and his coach asking him to learn to loop the ball so it lands close to the net. I suspect there's a misunderstanding here. The Chinese DON'T loop so that the ball lands close to the net, not in competition anyhow. The "loop close to the net" thing is an EXERCISE. It's not meant to be your PLAYING STYLE. Your coach makes you do it TO LEARN HOW TO HIT AND CONTROL SHORT, SPINNY LOOPS. This doesn't mean a fast shot (though it does mean a high racket speed). In fact, the next step is to add more power and more speed and perhaps a thicker contact, with the ball ending up near the baseline. You COULD hit such a shot with less spin, but it won't be (or rather, can't be) as fast and a shot with all the added spin you've learned to make in the first step. Which is why they make you learn the first thing in the first place.

Where, exactly, is "Singalong"? :lol:

Iskandar


Yes its an exercise, but what many people don't understand is that it instills (subconsciously) the act of spinning the ball in every loop, so even when you go for a loop kill, the power that you put in is first to instill spin and then speed , now since you're initial aim is to spin the ball, you go for a brushing contact, however that's not enough to put speed on the ball and this way you end up using your entire body for the shot to give it power. If you practice this overtime, you would notice Chinese style demands more of body movement with the shot, as long as you follow the key principle of spinning the ball


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