OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Wasn't one of the problems with a similar Dr. Neubauer sponge that the sponge wouldn't go back to its "normal" shape and would keep the dents from where it absorbed the ball's energy? Have you noticed any abnormal sponge issues as you've used it more?

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"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Dwruck wrote:
That was Hallmark Mirage, I believe, an anti-spin rubber. Hallmark Phoenix, its LP-nephew, seems to have a similar sponge, but I've heard nothing about problems concerning lasting dents caused by ball-impact. The Dawei Gras 20's sponge is certainly vulnerable (see my first post above), but so far I've only noticed problems when something small and sharp (something with an edge or point) makes an indentation; the sponge won't completely resume its form when it has suffered from this kind of pressure. With balls there seems to be no problem whatsoever. However, this vulnerability might be another reason why Dawei only issues a 1.0 mm sponge; thicker sponge might be vulnerable to very hard bouncing balls. Even with the 1.0 mm sponge it is probably not a good idea to mishit and make contact with the table-edge; that might ruin the rubber.

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Without opponent, no match.

Makes sense Kees. Thanks for the write-up!

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Last night I used the Dawei 388D Grass20 playing half a dozen matches practicing against members of my club. I came away a bit disappointed, since the Grass showed a couple of flaws - well, they seemed flaws to me, anyway.
First of all, the rubber can produce tough backspin, but I found it hard to keep the ball low when chopping against fast heavy topspin. In comparison, this was easy with the Butterfly Feint Long III; it is also easier with the Dawei 388D in OX. Since a lot of my chops were too high, and therefore attacked hard, I had to attack more myself, but against fast balls, which I don't like much and am not very good at. It made it hard to keep the pace of the game down.
Secondly, the "energy-storing" sponge has its limitations or peculiarities. An incoming slow ball has to be returned with some force, or it won't go over the net; an incoming medium-fast ball can be returned without thinking; an incoming fast ball needs to be caught and returned with special care, or it will overshoot the table. I think that when balls are coming in fast, there is too much energy for the sponge to store it all; and I found it hard to predict when this would be the case and when not. Perhaps one could get used to this, but I didn't like it; it made the rubber rather complex to handle and I prefer simple reliability.
Thirdly, the sponge is thin enough that fast balls bottom out. Not a problem when you want them to, but definitely a pain when you don't.
All in all it made the Grass not so easy to control and it felt inconsistent to me. As I said, one could get used to this, and I considered the possibility to turn it into something positive, since unpredictability can be disturbing to the opponent too, but I decided against it, since what I like in the general characteristics of the top-sheet is simplicity and reliability.
When I came home, I removed the sponge (easy enough; just pulling slowly) and glued the top-sheet back on, so I have a spare Dawei 388D OX to play with now.

I have wondered why in practice sessions stuff seems to be OK and then in matches doesn't really work out that way... In this case, I think the inconsistency I experienced in the matches was compensated in the practice sessions by repetition: when chopping in practice sessions, the first return may be high, so you make the next one go lower over the net, and the third one lower still, by changing the bat-angle, or forward speed, or downward pull, and so on. But in a match you don't get three balls in a row the same way, so your first return must be right. If you have the right feel and confidence in the rubber, this is not a problem; but with a rather complex rubber like the Grass, it is; at least to me.

I have also tried to think of a set-up which gave me similar problems. Some time ago, for a short while I tried a black Xiying 979 OX on a Globe 583 blade (stiff, great control, All+/OFF-). As the braking effect of the 979 is great, low balls had to be handled exactly like with the Grass. Fast incoming balls were difficult to keep low and on the table, also more or less as with the Grass. So this set-up had a similar complexity and I gave it up for the same reason. Now I'm playing the Globe 583 with Double Fish 1615 OX (which doesn't slow down incoming balls that much by itself) and it works just fine (although it is a bit too fast for me yet to use in serious matches).
I think that, for me at least, the problems arise when something fast is combined with something slow (like the slow 979 OX with the relatively fast Globe blade, or the slow Grass20 sponge with the relatively fast 388D top-sheet); being slow and being fast will interact with each other in different ways under different circumstances, which makes for a complex output at best, an unpredictable one at worst.

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Without opponent, no match.

Kees, I think that Meteor 8512 is better than most of the rubbers you mentioned above. Speed, spin and control are just right for a game to play at the table.

I have to second this GR. Having played with 8512 Ox for most of last year with also using it with 1mm def spnge, Palio and BT as well, I am now using 8512 with 0.5mm sponge. I think the 0.5 sponge is a happy medium between Ox and 1mm sponge giving all the 8512 control benefits (which the 1mm sponge lost slightly) and just enough additional speed balls are not dying into the net as can happen with Ox. While I think Palio is a deadlier pip (and perhaps BT to some extent) 8512's additonal control makes up for what it loses but does still have a lot of, in its deadliness. The 845 mid-pips I tried were useless because it lost this spin variability ("deadliness") almost totally.

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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Reb and GR,

I've played with the Meteor 8512 too, for a while. It is a very decent LP, and I like it, but as for reversal and hitting the Xiying 979 is better in my opinion. I have used the Dawei in the past season because - for a beginning chopper/attacker like me - it is simple, reliable and just about fast enough to make returns uncomfortable for the opponent. The Meteor and the Xiying are not as simple, but can produce more discomfort; and I think the Xiying is the meanest of the two, so I'll try to use it (OX) in the upcoming season instead of the Dawei. This doesn't mean that I hold the Dawei Grass 20 to be inferior to the Meteor 8512! It just felt a bit too complicated for me.

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Without opponent, no match.