OOAK Table Tennis Forum

My comparison of TSP curl p1r vs TSP curl p4 chop

Same sponge size
Same blade

P4 and p1r is different surface and sponge but pips structure is about the same

P1r
-feel faster by springly feel bouncing off
-require full chop stroke to create super heavy backspin
-immediately chop stroke is spin reducing, light , normal , predictable ball. Then gone to smash
-must be intend on every stroke.
-attacking by backhand smash is not too difficult.
-can create some spin on attacking but not enough to win the point. Just for variation, I think.
-easier to return serve. Swipe serve returning like Chen weixing (p1r) is very very dangerous.(advantage of fast, I've found).
-fighting against slow spiny loops is perfect. Return slow spiny loops by chopping is easy and unpredictable.

P4
-super slow.
-tons of control, ball sink into the sponge longer than other rubber.
-immediately chop is forgiving and still heavy and not to high over the net.
-best long pimple in generating spin, most spiny long pimple.
-flat ball can be returned to heavy backspin when chop.
-side spin chopping is good and easy .
-must read the opponent's serve.
-easiest attacking long pimple.
-slow spiny loops is very very scared for P4 ,especially 1.0 mm and 1.5 mm

Conclusion,

P4 is more inverted-like, in spin manipulation, grippiest
P1r is still long pimple-like, but it just gripper than the other
P4 is better when fight against flat ball player like short pimple ,inverted smasher, anti-spin player.
P1r is better when fight with looper, Chinese style , pen hold style, spiny player.
P4 is active. P1r is little more passive.

My main problem is slow spiny loop that many pro opponents often do.

P4's solution is mixing side spin on chop but not easy. Straight chop is predictable then It is be smashed easier.

P1r straight chop is better and unpredictable. Smasher is always suicide.

But in the other game variation TSP curl p4 give me more control.
If we talk about advanced player who choose tsp curl P4 like Masato Shiono, maybe the reason that he goes pro with 0.5mm sponge that the ball doesn't sink into the sponge too much. I think (my opinion).

"Control" can be created by human with hard practice enough.
"Effect" is one things cannot be create

Hi class players choose most effective equipment then do hard practicing to control it rather than choose most control then play comfortably

World class Chinese rubber (national version) is almost not much speed but it's super spiny, so they do the hard practice to increase power and speed.

Joo use 1.5 mm sponge is out of control for many people

Nowadays, I try to control tsp curl p1r.

Thanks ninja, interesting comparison! What sponge thickness did you compare? Later this year I will try the Curl P4 0.5 on the Victas Koji Offensive blade and compare it to Curl P1r 1.0 on the Joo. Can you tell anything about a good blade match for the P4?

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Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

Curl p4

Fast blade with thicker sponge like 1.0 (remember, you just need fast blade for speed on forehand, not for backhand) I've found we'll done the fully chop act. On fast blade, Thicker sponge hold the ball longer, but thinner, ball meet fast blade too quickly then bounce off with less pimples work.

Def blade with thinner sponge 0.5 for more dampening and fully chop. Difference from fast blade, def blade and thin sponge work together (synergy).

All-round blade, is all round , just choose 1.0 or 0.5. Up to you.

1.5 mm curl p4 is not recommend, just go to chop with short pips

It's all about hardness, stiffness and bumping of the ball, How do we manage the equipment to be most effective and most control.

Off blade with thick sponge
-Offensive shot on forehand and backhand
-Able to Mix side spin chop and act more effective.
-create decent spin your own

Def blade with thin sponge
- close the table is more controllable and more effective(returning serve, push, lift, side swipe)
- feel deeper chop act away from table.
- easier chop to place the ball on any position on the table (left, right, middle you can choose )

**But amount of backspin on straight chopping is about the same.**

I really wonder what the difference is between the p1r and the p4 pips (the pips, not the sponge).
The structure on top of the pips seems the same, distance between the pips also seems the same, the p1r pips might bea little bit thinner but I can't tell for sure. The only difference that I'm sure about is that the p4 pips are a little bit softer/more flexible than the p1r pips.

But I like to hear your thoughts....

Barry, the P4 pips are indeed softer and if I remember correctly, they are also a tad shorter.

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

What sponge thickness works well with Kim Kyung-Ah blade? 0.5mm or 1mm. I am just looking for safe defensive chopping.

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The Dark Side: "Quicker, easier, more seductive" - Yoda

I wonder what would happen if you combine the P4 topsheet with the P1R sponge.

Normally I play with a defplay with a P4 1.0mm. I chop and attack with my backhand (both active block and 'topspin') and the P4 is perfect for this purpose. But somehow my FH feels a little bit akward and sometimes I miss some speed.
I also have a faster and softer (more bouncy) Adidas hypertouch blade. The FH feels more secure but with a P4 the BH becomes way to fast and bouncy.
With a Curl P1R 1.5 mm it worked way better, probably because of the much harder sponge. But with the P1R the attacking capabilities are less good than with the P4.

So what if I combined the P4 topsheet with the P1R sponge. Do you think this would work and give me the best of both worlds are will it be an awful combination?

Interesting line of thought. The pips are softer and because the sponge is hard, they might disturb the opponent some more. I don't think it would be easier to attack with, though, because the pips are softer. But it's worth a try!

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Maybe p1 p4 0.5 for only heaviest deep chopping, safe and better control , use 1.0 for attack and variation and manipulation of spin

It is tsp curl p5r ,i thought hahaha

They might make a tensioned P1-R, though. Pips would be softer and sponge would be hard and faster. That pip might be called P5-R. Or P5BetaR.

_________________
There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

(bolding mine)

I am not sure P-4 is spinnier than Feint Long 3. I know that Butterfly is not this boards favorite rubber, but FL3 is a very spinny rubber.

Ian

Ian

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Blade: Giant Dragon Kris: FH: Friengship 729 Judo (red) 2.0 BH: Feint Long 3 (black) 1.3
Blade: Alfa Pro : FH: Friendship Judo (red) 2.0 BH TSP Curl P-1r (black) 1.4

Ian, I have tried feint long 3 which is stiffer. Not same "pips system" as p4 in playing, Let's see

fl 3 create spin by pips surface (top surface of pimples) so if you lightly rub the ball on it without bending of pips fl3 is grippier.

P4 create spin by bending pips on active stroke so if you strongly rub the ball on it then pips is bend. P4 is grippier.

okay, fl3 is stiffer and more chopping short pips like.

in game play,
fl3 is better on serving, close the table, blocking pushing, lower throw, faster on chop since it was stiffer, slower and spinnier on push ball . Is better Manipulate low speed ball .

P4 is away from table chop. Need speedy and strongly ball to fill spin into the ball. Controling close the table, you need more practice than fl3

Thanks Ninja,

again interesting to read your findings. If I understand you correctly, the P4 is closer to P1r in terms of creating spin by bending the pimples? I remember that FL III indeed almost plays like inverted, it is quite spin sensitive and you can create a decent amount of backspin of your own, also in the short game. However, FLIII and P4 have almost the same soft sponge, while P1R has a very hard sponge. You don't mention how the sponge plays a role for the three rubbers... Would be interesting to hear your thoughts about it.

I've got a sheet of FLIII 1.1mm and a sheet of P4 0.5mm to experiment with in the near future, but at the moment I'm perfectly happy with P1r 1.1mm.

Would you think FLIII 1.1 is better on a harder and faster defensive blade (like JSH) or on a slower softer blade (like VKM)?

I suppose the P4 0.5 would match better with a softer and slower defensive blade (Shiono f.e. has it on Defplay)...

What do you think?

PS: you could add FLIII in the title of this thread!

_________________
Exclusive OOAK-Interview with Joo Saehyuk | Masato Shiono | Panagiotis Gionis

In my opinion, sponge of fl3 is not give you the same effect as p4 cause of rubber surface and pips stiffness

-With fl3, Ball bounce off your racket faster than p4
but !! Fl3's bouncing height is lower than p4, in chopping trajectory is lower angle.

-By brushing super speed ball p4 is slower and more dampening cause of it's flexy surface ,pips and mixing with it's sponge

-shiono is super active chopper, I think his form is the most active chopper nowaday like koji masushita in past day so he need something very very dampening for his backhand defplay with 0.5 p4 is most slow and dampening chopping rubber for him to do his full active motion. This style is less deception for your opponent. It's all about your strongness , power, and hard praticing.
Make sure yourself that you are active chopper. You must practice your footwork ,skill, and technics so much.

-Fl3 1.1 on fast balde is not bad, you should do more backhand smash offensive shot with it, I've found fl3 is best to do it (compare with p1r and p4 ) and blocking with fl3 is better than those two rubbers. Not just chop from table. Fl3 can fight with slow ball, spinny ball, backspin ball very good. Chopping with it is deceptive, easy to make confuse with not different motion. Switching sidespin chop or no spin easier than p1r and p4. Chopped ball is returned to your opponent faster. Sometime they are not ready to attack next ball but he judge to attack. I saw many mistake from koji's opponent in video clip.

-Effect of P1r is just middle of these two rubbers used by Many pro.