OOAK Table Tennis Forum

We have a new "older experienced" player that uses 0x long pips and ive tried 0x, 0.5 and now trying 1.5. my goal is far distance chopping.
His opinion is that 0x allows for most spin and putting spin on the ball with thick sponge is difficult and youll get much less. To be honest, in the nicest way I can is this, I think this guy simply has no idea what he is talking about. I also see this type of discussion a lot online and wildly differing opinions as to what sponge actually does.
I have played with a purely wooden bat without rubbers in training and if the opponent returned a heavy topspin then my bat would have insane spin reversal and the opponent would almost always hit into the net regardless of how much backspin I tried to put on it. but that is exactly because I cannot put spin on it, not because I can. He also mentioned "see how well I hit it there", after I hit into the net after a topspin attack. its clear as day that if i dont put topspin, he cannot put much backspin on it at all. based from what I see (tho i havent been able to try yet), the only reason people say that there is less backspin with thicker sponge is because there is less spin reversal and so more of the spin has to come from your own strocke. If you look at joo se hyuk for example, he used 2.0 if im not misremembering, so obviously this doesnt make sense. then also because I wanted to see for myself, I once returned balls on 0x where I did a heavy backhand backspin motion and one where I didnt do it much. the difference almost didnt exist: If I play with 0x, there is basically no reason to even attempt to put backspin on the ball, as I cant really do much anyway. with forehand inverted rubber chopping, I can put a lot of backspin on it regardless of what my opponent does. my guess so far is: the thicker the sponge, the more the rubber will play like inverted: less spin reversal and therefor also more option to put your own backspin on it.
Putting backspin with 0x on a dead ball seems almost pointless, you might as well use a book.
My assumption for the reason for these differing opinions is the location and generation gaps. Here in germany, 99% of people who play long pips are older people that dont like to move much. Their reason for choosing LPs has nothing to do with chopping. its all about making it awkward for the opponent to play and getting good reversal, so sure, but I dont think I can take any of their advice seriously when they say stuff like "you can put less spin on the ball with more sponge". the reason you get more spin with 0x on a returned topspin is exactly because you cannot put any backspin on it and the ball doesnt care about your rubber: the backspin that comes back is from the opponent, not you. i havent played with 1.5 yet, though I will be able to very soon, so Ill see how it differs i guess.

its just weird seeing all of these "experienced players" who tried out different rubbers claim these weird things which go so contrary to how chopping pros like joo se hyuk play, almost as if a majority of people using long pips have zero understanding of what they do or like to pretend that there is some magic formula to long pips that does very special things. sure, im not "experienced", but im beating all of these "older experienced" players ive met so far quite easily regardless of what material or long pips i have, and they still want to get me to stick to 0x and avoid forehand chopping and get closer to the table, so something makes me think they dont have as much of an understanding as they believe they do

I agree with you. With sponge you'll be able to generate more spin, although it takes a lot of effort & speed to get some spin.

I think the bigger reason the pros use a sponge is, to allow them to control the very high pace that occurs at that level. This would be almost impossible to do with OX. Against a fast loop you need to brush very fast and lightly to control the ball, which becomes harder and harder to do the faster the loop. With a sponge you can absorb that high pace which results in both better control and more backspin. A fast loop to OX LPs will just 'ping off', resulting in good reversal but will be much harder to control.

If some of the players you're talking to only play at lower levels where fast loops are not common, or they never move away from the table, OX might well be the best choice.

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I find confusion in the opponents (and myself) at the extremes of LP in OX and LP in max thickness (usually 1.5 mm). With thick sponge I can't tell if my opponent hit flat or used his sponge. There is no doubt the thicker the sponge the more spin you can either impart. I am not sure about the amount of continuation spin with flat shots (blocks or hits) however.