OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Er, no. They're completely outside ITTF specs, and would have no chance of ever being certified. You can look up the specs here:

https://equipment.ittf.com/#/equipment/manuals

And the list of ITTF approved rubbers (the "LARC") is here:

https://equipment.ittf.com/#/equipment/racket_coverings

(Getting something into the LARC is complicated and expensive, you also have to pay every year to KEEP it on the LARC, though, it turns out, the fees aren't nearly as high as I thought they were.)

What does this mean? It means you can't play in a sanctioned tournament (i.e. something organized by a national sporting organization, or the ITTF) with these rubbers, or anything else that isn't in the LARC. Does it mean you can't use this stuff when NOT at a tournament? Sure, if you're just playing among friends. You MIGHT bring it to the club, but unless it's just to try out or as a novelty I think you'd get frowned at by most people. You can TRY to use them in non-sanctioned tournaments - you know, your high school championships, the Intramurals at your University, your church's Basement League, you company's annual Ping Pong Picnic, or the City Hall Town Championships, but I suspect you'd run into some people who will object and complain that it's "unfair" - the likelihood of this happening will increase exponentially the larger the tournament, and the higher the grade of player that you encounter. There are places in the world (China and Indonesia, apparently) where people are a lot more tolerant about this sort of thing, so you tend to see this stuff on sale there.

Iskandar

Sort of in defense of S-Jan - he's actually quite a high ranked player. IIRC his rating in the late 1990s was over 1900. He played in the same club Larry Hodges played at, I think it's somewhere in the Washington DC area. I don't think he's into the giant pips and frictionless pips - he's a chopper. His beef with the ITTF had to do with the banning of the original Feint II Long through the aspect ratio limit, which IIRC was favored by a lot of choppers. And he didn't think it was fair that the "robot loopers" could use speed glue. The problem was he got really obsessive about it, and started behaving like there was a huge conspiracy targeting him and other choppers. And acting upon it. My beef with S-Jan had to do with his online behavior, not with his playing or playing style. He's a much, much better player than I ever was.

Iskandar

I had my doubts earlier but this is definitely S-jan..

Iskandar

Explaining S-jan would take a long time. It goes back to the mid-1990s, long before this forum actually existed.

Iskandar

Let me expand on this somemore.
ITTF could easily ban all pips & anti easily if they wanted to. From a majority of players perspective, this is also the right thing to do in any civilized democracy.

But why do you think ITTF has not done so ? ITTF wants the pips players to believe that ITTF admires pips players and they want to keep pips players in the sport because ITTF believes in diversity , inclusion and all that nonsense. But this is the biggest nonsense anyone can sell but ITTF has done this so successfully because ITTF knows pips players have no self respect or self esteem and badly want to be admired by loopers. They exploit this to the max, & this is why ITTF has continued to make rule change after rule change ( 9 of them since 1983 ) but most new young pips players have no freaking clue as to what is really going on & the reign of terror of the ITTF against pips players. Older pips players are afraid to speak up

OK now let me get to the REAL reason as to why ITTF has not banned all pips.
ITTF depends a lot on its association with IOC (& other sponsors) related income. If ITTF bans pips, there is a real possibility now that pips players can start their own association which would severely dilute the total control that ITTF has over pips players but more importantly loss of sponsors & possible IOC revenue. ITTF learned this lesson when glue freaks threatened to form their own association in 1995 when glue ban was initially brought about but ITTF repealed it in 3 months.

So in the final analysis, the only way pips players can get justice & punitive reparations from ITTF for 40 years of incessant abuse is to start a separate association & bring ITTF to the negotiating table. But it would take someone like Dr.Neubauer who had made lots of money of pips & also is the mortal enemy of Scholer who absolutely hates pips & the success of Dr.Neubauer.
I have already proposed such an association an year ago with three separate rulesets for youth, all age & master's groups

No.
First, please visit my other post today about order of arrival of various rubbers in table tennis.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42070
Even if what you say is true, how does it matter when a rubber arrived in table tennis ?

Do you know when frictionless long pips arrived ? But I hope you at least know by now that they were banned in 2008

This varies country from country. Also it is naive to believe that most loopers love choppers & consider them athletically their equal.
I have been thru these discussions in 100s of iterations over the years & I know the facts worldwide.
But again feel free to continue what you "believe"

Sorry no.
They very much care about public perception that they love diversity & inclusion of all playing styles

Ok let us assume this is true. Are you saying that anti is as effective as even long pips (let alone super pips) in the 40+ plastic ball ONLY era ? REALLY ?

So what you are saying is that the looper controlled ITTF knows what is good for pips players & cares about what is good for the sport ? OK

By the way I also asked in my other post as to why ITTF has banned FLPs in 2008 but has not banned FLantis.
I will wait for your answer first

I have been in this sport close to 50 years as a player relatively close to high level, as a super successful league creator & admin, as well as a coach & founder of a table tennis center who ran state championships & other tournaments. And table tennis is sort of like my fourth sport (after hockey, basketball & tennis) from my youth I did not even start playing seriously till my second post graduate college degree.
So I would say I have seen a lot of things transpire & my comments are based on my such experience.


Sorry no. Because spinverted rubber is usually a primary or strongside rubber in table tennis. Unless a player uses long pips both sides which is a ridiculous choice

Sorry No . They were banned for political reasons.
I won’t get into it here

That is exactly my point. Long pips on ITTF LARC are a joke & that is how ITTF wants it. The looper controlled ITTF also knows short pips & anti are a joke as weakside rubbers but keeps promoting it with disinformation campaigns so that players won’t use even long pips on LARC, let alone the ONLY truly functional weakside rubbers, which are the super pips.
But as I have said many times, pips & anti players get brainwashed by ITTF and seriously think anti or long pips on ITTF LARC or short pips on weakside can be truly functional & useful in the 40+ plastic ball ONLY era. But they are nothing more than social rubbers. The one & only truly functionally useful rubber in the 40+ plastic ball ONLY era are super pips but most players don’t even know about them & ITTF would love to keep it that way.


Ok you keep believing all is beautiful & no corruption in table tennis or in ITTF.
And based on my 50 years of experience Iknow the truth.

Huh ?
So you claim that ITTF does not claim have a policy of diversity and inclusion of all playing styles ? REALLY ? OK
Failure to at least have a fake policy of diversity (of all playing styles) would be a violation of Olympic ideals & IOC could expel table tennis from Olympics.

As I see it , the discussion was about which rubber type is the most effective ? As I see it anti is a joke in the 40+ plastic ball only era even the so called magical frictionless anti. Just playing with any rubber just enjoyment or emotional attachment or one believes that they can be as good as a pro simply using the same rubber type, does not qualify as the most effective
But if you understand why ITTF banned frictionless LPs but not Frictionless Antis , you will understand which is the most effective . ITTF does not want pips (I know that for a fact mostly for political reason & I won’t get into that here & write a book) But as I have said before they also cannot ban (long) pips for political reasons. I know the truth but if you & others want to live in a fantasy world believing that looper controlled ITTF knows how to make rules for pips &anti players, by all means enjoy whatever

I never said you said that. I am definitively saying that all the councils & committees of the ITTF & similar groups in the ITTF’s national associates are controlled by majority former glue & booster sucking loopers. I am not saying 100% are them but would be like at least 75% if not more


That is EXACTLY my point. The looper controlled ITTF does not want players to use what is most effective as weakside rubbers. This is why the looper controlled ITTF had passed 9 rules & regulations since 1983 to limit pips. The looper controlled ITTF wants players to use what is the least nuisance for them (illegally boosted up loopers) which are the antis & weakside short pips. They know anti & weakside short pips are the least effective & that is exactly why they want players to use them. They would rather have player not use even the useless long pips on ITTF LARC let alone the truly functional super pips. This is why the looper controlled ITTF keeps coming up with new rules again & again against pips. Also as I said they would love to ban all pips but they cannot , due to political reason which I have explained many times in the past few days & 100s of times over the years.
BTW there is also more politics as to why ITTF does not want pips but accepts anti. That is another story but I won't get into that here.
But I will say that it is a German story. Ask around in Germany.

Also BTW, it is not about unpredictability. Frictionless pips are a bigger nuisance for loopers than anti (& weakside short pips) . And of course the usual lame excuse that billions of youth have left teh sport because of frictionless long pips. There is also lot more to this story & I have discussed them in forums many times before & I am not going to do it again

Hi DiegOX,

You ought to see it when we get S-Jan on a mad-on about Larry Hodges... just hilarious. He personally blames Larry for all kind of ITTF mischief. S-Jan so hates it when we say anything like Larry is his buddy.

Larry Hodges is a USA coach... S-Jan blames Larry for influencing ITTF to change aspect ratio of pips and other assorted negative actions vs pips equipment. Larry was not the USATT president or anything like that, but S-Jan thinks it is all Larry's fault.

S-Jan thinks Larry is so respected in the big wig circles he calls him Reverend Larry.

We simply laugh as S-Jan's outright hate for Larry. I sometimes try to get him to go on rants about Larry, it is so illogical.