0x556c69 wrote:
So in my experience, equipment and even playing style (!) do not matter at all.
So what you are saying is that, if Jiang JiLiang played Waldner, both using smooth rubber (instead of Jiang using short pips), Jiang has a prayer (if according to your crazy argument, Jiang can adjust to using smooth rubber after a week or a month or an year of training using smooth rubber) ?
So what you are saying is that, if Waldner played Jiang JiLiang, both using short pips (instead of Waldner using smooth rubber), Waldner has a prayer (if according to your crazy argument, Waldner can adjust to using short pips after a week or month or an year of training using short pips)?
At any given (more or less) equal skill level (not comparing a pro to a beginner) every human has only one blade & rubbers that as closely matches to their very distinct playing style on their forehand or backhand. And no rubber blade is going to work equally well against all opponents with all styles even at the pro level. You make choices to choose what is best for you. In your case you just don’t seem to want to because you have convinced yourself that equipment does not matter.
0x556c69 wrote:
Hubeer wrote:
You claim professional players use certain stuff like short pips.
Yes, I dare. Falck, Hou, Yuto, Wang, the Japanese girls, lots of very good players use short pips. Even choppers. So what? It works. At all levels, even for me down the ladder. For the matter, same as long pips or Tackiness C or whatever.
I have already explained this. I completely understand Falck using short pips. Because Falck uses it as a primary weapon. Every rubber type has a primary purpose. For short-pips it is block & smash if say Jiang or Gao Jun. In case of Falck or Christian Carlsson it is Smash & loop style.
You are saying “it works” for others. Works to what extent ? Simply because a pro uses a certain rubber it does not make it the best for them. You seem to think simply because a pro uses a certain rubber (& their coach recommends that) does not mean it is the right choice for them. I have seen in lots of cases where coaches, based on their own personal experiences, playing styles and personal prejudices, recommending wrong blades & rubbers for their students either as an innocent mistake or deliberate coaching malpractice.
Take for example German Choper Irene Ivancan who uses Butterfly Joo Sehyak blade & Butterfly Challenger short pips on backhand. She may be hitting with low level pros but against the best of the best like Ding Ning , she almost never hits with short pips. You think she has a prayer against Ding Ning just chopping using short pips ?
She is probably contractually obligated to use Butterfly but the Joo Sehyak blade she uses is garbage blade for most choppers. (I am not going to get into this. I discussed this in another thread).
IMO I strongly feel she may be much better off using Feint Long 2 or 3 (if she has to use Butterfly by contract). I strongly suspect she is using short pips due to robotNazi pressures because in some countries like Germany, Sweden, France, India, Nigeria, Vietnam , Phillipines, Egypt, USA, New Zealand etc, I strongly suspect long pips and anti users are very much hated (at least on men’s side) but in many other countries like UK, Japan , Korea and Australia they are more tolerant of long-pips and anti. I read somewhere that German chopper Englebert Huging was so pressured by people that he voluntarily used two color racket even before the two color rule of 1983. (Funny thing is that Scholer made a video before the two color rule at around the same time coaching how to twiddle a combo racket with same black rubber both sides. But suddenly Scholer found religion and God (Thanks to Dr.Neubauer) and went nuts against long-pips over and over) .
Also keep in mind that just because anyone can win using short pips neither means they are winning just because short pips nor that short pips is the best for them. Take Hou Yingchao. I don’t think at all that he wins because of short pips only. He has other aspects such as a wicked forehand side-spin hook loop among other things. I am not sure why he went to short pips but I think if he had stuck with long pips he may have stayed at the level of Joo Sehyuk at top 10 for a long time.
Simple because you managed to fail and stay at the same rating level no matter what rubber / blade you use is not proof that equipment does not matter. Your failure is not all ONLy due to equipment choices though it plays a vital part. There are other things involved. So many robotNazis get frustrated against long pips & they themselves try it for a day or two & realize how hard it is and then give up and go back to badmouthing long-pips
0x556c69 wrote:
I dare say, almost every player would reach her or his natural level with every style and equipment.
Thanks for the laughs
0x556c69 wrote:
Uh, am I missing something? I'm doing something that can't be done. Great, I like it. Btw, my short pip chop is different from my long pips one, but in total the results are the same. Does this mean long pips are garbage for chopping as well (last lp has been Curl P1R 1,0)?
Yes you are very seriously missing something
You think you are doing that cannot be done , but sadly you are not. If the overall results are the same, it is not just due to your choice of pips. Neither does it prove short pips is just as good for chopping as long pips.
0x556c69 wrote:
Does this mean long pips are garbage for chopping as well (last lp has been Curl P1R 1,0)?
I don’t understand the logic of this argument. Simply because you “think” you are so freaking great using short pips does not prove long pips is garbage for chopping. I never said from the over all sense that short pips is not meant for chopping defense style. I never said there cannot be very very very rare exceptions but I also doubt you are one of them.
0x556c69 wrote:
Hubeer wrote:
I am also not saying that you cannot chop at all with short pips period. It is always possible that one may be an all around players doing a little bit of everything (chopping, hitting, lobbing , blocking etc) using just short pips or just inverted. In that case they are not full-time dedicated choppers, they are all around players. It is possible that there exists such players at all skill levels including pro.
Isn't this the contrary of the above cited statement? Maybe I don't understand correctly - probably some language issue. All defensive players at all times have been able to attack and used it. Ok, let's skip Chtchetinine. Nothing is wrong with an allround style. I especially like the japanese player Satoshi Aida. He chops at highest level with both sides inverted. Amazing. And just when an opponent thinks he has time to do whatever attackers do, he's confronted with a nasty backhand topspin or loop kill from forehand.
No it is not contrary. There is no language issue. There are specialist (pro) choppers (who chop 99% against players at equal skill level not against someone far below them) just as specialist short-pips hitters (who may block & smash 99% of time against players at their level).
But all around style players are different and wherever did I say that all around style is wrong (but I do say that the psychotic fantasy that lots of table-tennis players have that they can play an all around style but hardly ever practice for that, is crazy). Ok is Satoshi Aida is a specialist chopper ? Absolutely not. Yes he has built his game around chopping but that does not make him a specialist chopper like the last great two-winged specialist choppers like Norio Takashima (or sadly even Eberhard Scholer). But what is Aida’s his highest level ? At the top 10 , like Joo Sehyuk (or Chen Xinhua or Li GunSang) ? I think not.
BTW please show me videos of top 50 specialist choppers attacking more than a few times from the long-pips side (I never said they do not attack from smooth rubber side) against other top 100 pro players (not against top 1000 players) .
Maybe Satishi Aida should take your advice and try short pips both sides or anti both sides or long-pips both sides for an year and he would still stay at the same level. Hey you said equipment does not matter. To go one step further, since equipment does not matter, why don’t ITTF mandate that we all use 1.5mm smooth rubber both sides ? Won’t it make it easier for all concerned ? Hey equipment does not matter afterall
You are confusing your fantasy of wanting to be an all around superstar table-tennis athlete (like maybe Waldner) with the reality of specialized playing styles with specialized playing styles and their very specific rubber, blade needs.
Another problem is that lot of amateurs notice isolated new rare examples like Aida & Hou and that becomes the new fad. I am not saying that revolutionary new approaches by pro players applicable to all levels of players is NEVER possible but extremely unlikely
0x556c69 wrote:
This does not mean that one style is inferior to another
You are putting words in my mouth . When & where did I ever say that ?
0x556c69 wrote:
Do you think, Ma Long, Boll, etc would be stronger or weaker if they would use another blade? Really? Boll used Srvier in speed glue times, then Tenergy, now Dignics. Regardless of equipment, he's always been top ten player. Provide him with H3, he would stay top ten. Give Ma Long Tenergy, he still would be number one. Give me Dignics, national H3, or any tensor rubber, I would still not be able to control the game.
I thought this discussion was about short-pips & long-pips . But you are just comparing two rubbers of a totally different type (smooth) but just different brands (Tenergy & Hurricane) trying to prove your wrong premise ? What the hell ?
So sticking to the point of totally different rubber types, yes I do think Ma Long or Boll would not even be in top 100 if they used short pips even on one side and trained an year and they probably won’t be in the top 1000 if they used short pips both sides, just as Jiang Liang or He Zhiwen would probably not be in the top 100 if they trained with smooth rubber for an year or just as Joo Sehyuk would not be in be top 100 if he used smooth rubber both sides.
Or maybe Ma Long can use a defensive blade & he would still stay in the top 1000
0x556c69 wrote:
I disagree. The potential of adjustment is enormous. In the end, as said before, it boils down to skill.
Ok you enjoy your fantasy.
Or should I say "You win. I was totally wrong. We always had short pips from hard bat days. Short pips is best for chopping. All choppers switch from long pips to short pips. All hitters switch from short pips to inverted. All loopers switch from inverted to long-pips"