OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I'm contemplating a change to short pips, (or at least giving them a serious go) on my back hand since I think short pips would could be a good option to complimenting my strengths. I have tried a few sessions with the 802-40 in max and one with the 35 soft sponge in 1.5. I have found both hard for me to control. It's just a little to fast for me. I was wondering you good people could suggest a slower short pips with good control that would be suitable for blocking, flicking and topspin driving and if it was good at handling spin on serve return it wouldn't hurt my feelings any. Since coming back to table tennis over the last 6 months I'm hook line and sinker deep, and over that time I have dropped a good amount on money in equipment. Since this is an experiment I would like to keep it in on the affordable side of things, so say the tsp super spin chop at 35 to 40$ is a little more than I want to spend on this. If I like sp I may do that so don't let that be a deterrent in suggesting / mentioning good rubbers, but affordability is also in the equation for now.

My game is focused around a strong serve, with fh hand looping. My bh is less consistent. I have gotten considerable better at reading spin and returning serves but I would not yet call it a strength. Im more successful with the back hand when blocking, flicking and top spin driving the ball. I'm 6'5 with long arms and my best distance for play is close or ideally two steps off the table. I don't have a rating but I do play at a small club and our top players are in the 1800's us rating. Do to consistency I fall some where in the middle of club play. I think 1200 is a safe guess. My main set up is Donic Waldner Allplay, FH dhs Neo skyline 2, BH Sanwei Gears. Really like the Chinese rubbers that do not catapult the ball. I don't have problems generating my own speed.

A follow up question has anyone tried one of the 802 rubbers with a slower or deadening sponge? Would this be a terrible idea?

I really love this blog very happy I found it. Any info this generous and knowledgeable group of people people might have would be much appreciated!


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To gmiller2233:
I also "really like the Chinese rubbers that do not catapult the ball". In the past I played with H2 non-NEO and my current favorite is Skyline 2 non-NEO, so you might be able to guess how I like the ball to fly when I hit it (and so my perspective might be worth something to you).

In between those two I spent about two years with short pips exclusively (I play cpen and never truly worked with the backside rubber), and on slower blades like yours, too. I liked 802-40 35d about 2.0, and Butterfly Challenger Attack 1.9.
In my opinion the cheaper of these two should serve you and you need not worry about it too much. To make the rubber slower you can learn to relax and soften your hand and/or pull back as needed. My model player during that period was Gao Jun (see YouTube), and she has all the control in the world! Sorry she plays cpen, but she said "I defend with the backhand and attack with the forehand", so you can see all kinds of shots. She played with the latter rubber but I'm advising you that 802-40 35d about 2.0 should also serve.

When you tried the 802-40 in 1.5 the ball was probably often "bottoming" and so rebounding too fast. Did you realize that? Your blade is already slow enough. I suggest 802-40 35d 2.0!

As I told you I used H2 non-NEO before I switched to short pips (and I played shakehand then), and I was thrilled (oops, did I say that?) with 802-40. I would link you to the thread I wrote about it, but the thread was a little messy. I have to go now.

Zhaoyang thanks for your comparisons and response. I'll go take a look at gao jun clips. I own the 802-40 with the max sponge it's not the 35 % better sponge and I played with a friends 1.5 with the better soft 35 sponge for two outings so I had less time with it. bottoming out may very well have been the issue with the 1.5. Picking up a sheet of the price friendly 802-40, 35% in 2.0 is easy enough.


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Zhaoyang I just thought I would let you know I did order the 802-40, 35 in 2.0. And I went a head and got ordered the 802-40 with a air zero sponge at 1.5 (the thickest the has) from cole's table tennis just to give it a try. I also order a 799 with the zero sponge as well just for fun. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again,


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Ohhh, that ought to be interesting. 802-40 on super soft sponges... I bet you will be able to loop that ball almost like inverted!

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Blog: "Holy Chtchet!" ⇝

Projects: Player Equipment Grid ⇝ Comprehensive Thin Inverted Chopping Rubbers Grid ⇝ Please send me corrections or new submissions

Have you considered TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2? Soft sponge, extreme control. And you can make spinwith it if you use the side of the pips. If you hit flat these pips are almost insensitive to spin.
http://www.japsko.se/en/short-pimples/4 ... hop-2.html

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Disagree about SSPCS2 having high control - I found them incredibly sensitive to spin.

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

That is true, but the low speed makes up for it I think. And the possibility to have different grip at different angles.

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Thanks for the heads up with spin pips chop2. I have been wondering about spinpips chop for some time. And If I do end up going with short pips I'll probably give them or some tsp rubber a look. My original thought was I did not want to spend to much money since I'm not 100 % on sp yet so I was looking for a affordable option. But after buying two friendship top sheets 802-40 and a 799 with two air sponges as well as a normal 802-40 35 soft in 2.0 I could have just have looked at the sspcs2 at the beginning lol. Chopping really isn't a big part of my game I would be interested in hearing if anyone uses the sspcs2 rubber and its dampening properties for blocking , topspin drives, and flips just because they like the slower speed. for now I feel pretty good about getting the 802-40, especially for now since I've heard so many good things about the 802 rubbers from experienced players.


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SSPCS2 is superb for chopping and topspin looping because it generates an insane amount of spin.

As a result though, that makes everything else that you'd use a SP for pretty bad. It's basically an inverted rubber with a bit more control and a heightened ability to vary spin for SP modern defenders.

If you're looking for the low-spin roll and the punch etc. you'd be better off looking at something like Spectol or 802, the more traditional SPs.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Thank you for the rundown!


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To gmiller2233:
Above, I gave the opinion that your equipment is already slow enough and I gave one example of someone who plays with "soft hands" to control the speed, but she plays cpen.

I just remembered one shakehand player with short pips on the backhand who plays a lot of touch shots plus bullets: Polina Mikhailova viewtopic.php?f=35&t=18665&hilit=polina+mikhailova . She says her rubbers are T05 1.7 and Challenger Attack 1.5 (but I already opined that 802-40 should play the same way).

And on the subject of soft hands, I always think about Evgueni Chtchetinine. He doesn't use short pips but does show how to squeeze the most from thin sponge by hitting softer.

Zhaoyang Thanks for the links and names comments once again. I'm always looking but I have not looked as much at women which is something I plan on doing more of since sp are more widely used in there game.
Soft hands, good foot work/body position, and racket angle are all things that I know I need the most work on especially for efficient backhand play. When I'm in the right mindset and actively remembering these things my play is much better. Which is much of my problem it's not second nature yet I still need to think about it. I don't need to think about this stuff as much with the fh.

As I said I above I did purchase a your suggested 802-40 35 in 2.0 and I think that will be what I end up playing. But I also got a 802-40 top sheet from cole's TT with a custom air zero sponge for kicks just to see if a slower pace was helpful in understanding sp play. I want to be good don't get me wrong, but I'm really having a blast getting in and playing and I mostly play for fun now. In a former life I did play baseball in collage and I know how much work you need to put into a sport to really become good at it. Do to super busy work dead lines, access ( or just present life) I'm just not there right now. I get into my club to play a few times a week tops right now. One of the days I get in the play is mostly doubles and I have improved to the point where the retired guys that play every day want me on there team in the mix. If I'm just giving away points because I'm messing with equipment that changes really quick. I've been there and if I can I would prefer not to go back lol. For me it's about understanding the shots and having confidence to hit the shots. If I just had time and access to drill I doubt I would mess with or ask about the slower rubber. I have the spent the most time with my fh loops and serves and it shows having made big leaps in those areas. My aces and my schedule will open greatly after the new year which is the good news, but in the mean time I thought slower might be forgiving enough to keep balls in play continuing having a blast competing with the trash talking retired men I play with. All while taking steps towards gaining confidence and understanding sp play.



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Sorry for the length reply I put this last part separate so that it would not get lost.

I thought I would report that I got my 802–40 on the custom air zero sponge in today. I was able to slap it on and go play some tonight. My club was full tonight with mostly doubles play. So I didn't break it out until the last hour of play. But I'm happy to report that in very limited play I really liked it. It's a slow setup and this is even more the case since I had it on a Swedish classic. I will comment more on everything when I have a few sessions under my belt. But for now I will just say I felt like I had great control while returning, flicking or hitting through serves. I also really liked hitting through spiny but slightly high serve returns this felt very safe and accurate. I even felt like I could loop with it pretty good. the window did seen slightly smaller for doing this since the throw was lower and spin less than a invert. It's good to know you can still hit that shot if you need to. However I don't want to start thinking about looping with it too much because that puts me in a mind set that makes me take balls later which is not ideal. I did find myself out of position taking balls too late a few times which forced errors. As I said it was limited play this could have been a fluke lol, but I felt like it was promising and I'm excited to try it again. especially since I just picking it up and started playing games with it.



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