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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2009, 08:53 
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Anti Spin Hero
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I had my first multiball training session with the sp/lp on Friday, and I'm amazed how short the stroke is. I have to think about zero backswing and starting the swing almost 'on' the ball - that isn't what happens but that is how I have to think about it. I was also amazed at how easy the 'block top spin on the bh then attack cut or topspinned ball to the fh' was - the bh and fh integrate so well! But if you have doubts, get a coach who knows sp. I'd had a group session on thursday with my normal coach (more for tactics and routines) and I'd not got anywhere near the right stroke, after one hour with someone who knows sp I'm now on the right track.

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PostPosted: 27 Jan 2009, 17:51 
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if spin is so important now, why not just hit with inverted?


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2009, 07:07 
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Baal wrote:
Shakehanders have a harder time with this. They definitely need spinny pips, for a start. They need thicker sponges. They also need to close their blades a bit more.

This is very very true. I recommend max sponges for shakehanders using pips on their backhand.

A woman I played with today, named Judy Long, a Canadian national team member who plays SH with pips on both sides uses max sponges also, with very disturbing results.


BAAL that sounds really interesting, which brand of pip`s is long using?


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2009, 00:58 
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Played against someone who used Radical today (great game, btw, although still lost) and my SP vs. his SP meant that I had to use topspin so that the ball doesn't just sink to the net when I hit it.

Starting to realize the importance of this ability to gain higher shot percentages and ability to start an attack.

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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2009, 12:17 
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Raystorm on the forehand, some kind of Chinese mediumish pips on the BH.

Alas, she has returned to Beijing a couple of months ago. :cry:

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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2009, 12:28 
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Quote:
if spin is so important now, why not just hit with inverted?


This is a good question. It deserves a detailed answer.

The answer for me is SP provide great control over spin and pace and direction which I never had with inverted, and I have the option to spin or not spin much more than with inverted, which can never give such a flat ball.

What I give up is spin-power (the combination of spin and power) that really powerful loopers have, and I give up pretty much all attacking capabilities off the table from my BH side. That raises a host of issues and liabilities, one of which is that I had to retool my forehand to be able loop effectively (with inverted) from closer in.

What I gain is the ability to markedly change the speed of the ball in the middle of a rally in a way that is absolutely impossible with inverted, and to hit spinny shots that are extremely difficult to read as to the amount of spin. This includes chops as well as loops. A good short pips player with spinny pips can hit slow loops that are amazing. They are slow, low, and very spinny and can be controlled remarkably. I can also hit through spin in a way that is really hard for inverted players to do. The flipped and rolled return of serve is very dangerous. Also, there remains some ability to return an opponents spin right back at him, using a slight modification of the bump shot that LP players use. (They may be spinny but they are still pips!).

One other strange effect. Pips players definitely get more net balls that go their way.

:twisted:

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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2009, 17:41 
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Baal wrote:
Quote:
if spin is so important now, why not just hit with inverted?


This is a good question. It deserves a detailed answer.

The answer for me is SP provide great control over spin and pace and direction which I never had with inverted, and I have the option to spin or not spin much more than with inverted, which can never give such a flat ball.

What I give up is spin-power (the combination of spin and power) that really powerful loopers have, and I give up pretty much all attacking capabilities off the table from my BH side. That raises a host of issues and liabilities, one of which is that I had to retool my forehand to be able loop effectively (with inverted) from closer in.

What I gain is the ability to markedly change the speed of the ball in the middle of a rally in a way that is absolutely impossible with inverted, and to hit spinny shots that are extremely difficult to read as to the amount of spin. This includes chops as well as loops. A good short pips player with spinny pips can hit slow loops that are amazing. They are slow, low, and very spinny and can be controlled remarkably. I can also hit through spin in a way that is really hard for inverted players to do. The flipped and rolled return of serve is very dangerous. Also, there remains some ability to return an opponents spin right back at him, using a slight modification of the bump shot that LP players use. (They may be spinny but they are still pips!).

One other strange effect. Pips players definitely get more net balls that go their way.

:twisted:


have you seen that video where HZW plays to another lefty cpen SP?, HE barely won..... The video is in the MTTN forum inthe ECL Thread , OTOH i know some guys that always are scoring many net/edge points all of them are inverted players still dont know why they can score so many lucky points (sometimes 4 points in a game!!)


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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2009, 18:33 
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I can say when ever I play SP or MP/LP players they score at least 2-4 points of the net per set it's just so annoying and to be able to win against them i have to stay calm and is wery hard when other player has got so much luck. :twisted:

Last thursday on practise sesion i played bloke with Sriver 1.5mm on F/H and MP C7 on B/H and he twidels wery well to.

I had to loop 7-10 times unthil can set up a point changing amount of spin on my loops and keeping his F/H away so he cant attack me. We played 14 sets I won 6 he won 8 and they all went over 10 -10 blodie hard work

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PostPosted: 05 Apr 2009, 23:45 
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I am not sure it is entirely luck. I think it is physics. Inverted and SP players both have balls strike the top of the net at the same frequency, but something about the SP pip ball makes it more likely to go over and strike the other side.

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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2009, 06:30 
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Baal wrote:
I am not sure it is entirely luck. I think it is physics. Inverted and SP players both have balls strike the top of the net at the same frequency, but something about the SP pip ball makes it more likely to go over and strike the other side.


I guess doesn't metter if is luck or physics but comes realy handy to get esy points,

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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2009, 07:34 
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purger wrote:
Baal wrote:
I am not sure it is entirely luck. I think it is physics. Inverted and SP players both have balls strike the top of the net at the same frequency, but something about the SP pip ball makes it more likely to go over and strike the other side.


I guess doesn't metter if is luck or physics but comes realy handy to get esy points,


Maybe not, but short pips players balls tend to be closer to the net as they arc less. I think you'll find while they get more points on net balls, they also make more errors by hitting into the net or off the table, due to the relative lack of spin. So it evens out, probably in favor of the inverted player.

After all, probably 80-90% of the top male players in the world play inverted both sides. If short pips was an advantage I'd expect the ratio to be different.

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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2009, 12:21 
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Top men can just blow through it. It works a lot better in the women's game.

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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2009, 16:57 
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Baal wrote:
Top men can just blow through it. It works a lot better in the women's game.


Everyone here blows through it. :cry:

If I outbalance them first, it works a lot better...

--

Just had a real bad day, pretty much lost almost every game. :cry:

Can't seem to handle light underspin and floats well -- I'm probably hitting flat without using spin to bring the ball down.

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PostPosted: 06 Apr 2009, 20:50 
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Yuzuki wrote:
Baal wrote:
Top men can just blow through it. It works a lot better in the women's game.


Everyone here blows through it. :cry:

If I outbalance them first, it works a lot better...

--

Just had a real bad day, pretty much lost almost every game. :cry:

Can't seem to handle light underspin and floats well -- I'm probably hitting flat without using spin to bring the ball down.


Give it time, I started and lost alot and missed into the net and off the end. Now I give the same people a lot more trouble and am a lot more accurate than I ever was with inverted.

Also, sometimes you just have bad days....

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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2009, 03:13 
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agooding2 wrote:
Maybe not, but short pips players balls tend to be closer to the net as they arc less. I think you'll find while they get more points on net balls, they also make more errors by hitting into the net or off the table, due to the relative lack of spin. So it evens out, probably in favor of the inverted player.

After all, probably 80-90% of the top male players in the world play inverted both sides. If short pips was an advantage I'd expect the ratio to be different.


Interestingly, many of my opponents whine that I have too many net balls. On the downside, I also have a lot of balls hitting the net or off the table.
On a good day, my hitting give a lot of headaches to higher rated players.

By the way, I was advised recently by a member of the US Olympic TT team (who uses SP) that my Darker Speed 90 wasn't giving the "right feel and ping" for SP purposes. My Avalox 700 was recommended as a better suited blade so I am retiring my faithful Darker.

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