OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi Everyone,

decided to become a member after paying regular visits to the site for Guidance and Knowledge - and may I add, never been disappointed in the quality advice submitted- Its clearly evident to me that there are some professionals on site who are kind enough and willing to share there insight of the sport to help people progress, this somehow too convinces me that, though we all want to set and achieve personal goals we all have an inherent desire to assist in the development and continued growth of table tennis, which can only be good for the sport.

Okay… a bit about me then Let me feed you with an event I co-ordinated and delivered at a school which changed my perception of things!
Hopefully this will give rise to comment!

I belong to, and coach at a great club and like many believed, promoted and instilled the technique of shake hand grip, which I have never questioned or believed to question, as I strongly believed this was not only the most predominately used but was more superior for maximising your strengths in table tennis. However, recently, during a school programme, I was coaching a BEGINNER who struggled to get a ball over the net using shake hand grip, which I’d encouraged on many occasions at various schools! Witnessing his frustration I suggested he change his grip to penhold. Not sure why?!?! Never have done before, but… felt this proposal might offer some slight reward for his efforts. He changed his grip to penhold. Which he described as more comfortable( before I proceed further with this may I make a pertinent point…in no way whatsoever did this participant have a physical impairment to his fingers, hand or arm. ) and had immediate success, got it across the net 58 times?????. “What was that all about” Reflecting on this I suggested for the rest of the group, as a fun activity, to try this grip. My observations and results on this impulsive experiment favoured no particular grip, shakehand or penhold, though what was jaw-dropping for me was the initial penhold switcher who had achieved the 58, successfully returns had now started to consistently return over the net using the reverse penhold backhand, without influence?! Okay technically not right but hey!!! Still a RPB.
Okay…..Purely, As a result of this, I decided to go on a 6 week programme playing penhold. Analysing and monitoring my progress throughout and integrating the rpb into my repertoire of new strokes. Never before have I played ph and I didn’t know where this would take me. This was a conscious decision that I decided to see through no matter what the outcome.
My results revealed after the first two weeks that the grip improved my forehand immeasurably but compromised my backhand which was poor, in fact rubbish! (My backhand was, primarily, my main strength in shake hand grip.)

I persevered. Currently into my 5th week and surprisingly finding my rpb rapidly improving and becoming extremely consistent, serious thoughts of changing my allegiance! Hmmmmm! Food for thought!

Many young Chinese players are electing to use pen hold because of players of the calibre of Wang Hao and Xu Xin successfully, incorporating this relatively new modern approach of back hand in their game. Is the pendulum swinging back towards penhold (pardon the pun?)




Question:

Should we be more flexible in our approach on grip? Do we really know what’s superior?

I have always been led to believe that if you stay still you go backwards!?!? (Hope that’s not a Chinese proverb!)

We experiment all the time with rubbers why not technique?

Any advice on reverse penhold backhand to compliment my programme would be appreciated.


Cheers Chaps

I would always play shakehand but eventually switched to penhold too due to comfort. Today, I am a penhold chopper on the backhand side and have a RPF for my forehand. Honestly, I've had people come up to me and try to adjust my grip but at the end of the day, i can consistently do it at a high level and its comfortable to me! For new players starting out, I would let them choose grip in terms of comfort; and i recommend that players who have been around awhile to experiment, it's only natural.

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My blade: Ross Leidy U-S-B
Talon in Red

characterIn a way we do: players who are/were using penholders have been more often world-champion and tend(ed) to last longer in the highest ranks of competiton. He Zhiwen, now over 50, is still able to compete with Europe's best shakehanders. There is no shakehand player who could or can do that. I also think the superiority of the penholder-grip is an established fact among coaches in China, who will point out that with this grip you can play faster and/or with more topspin than with the shakehand grip. But that is only a general rule; for individual players it is different.
One of the main reasons why the penholder grip lost much of its popularity in China during the 1980s and 90s was that people had to pay for tabletennis lessons; and you can be an accomplished shakehand attacker in 3 years, but it takes 5 to be a good penholder, which means two more years to pay for lessons. I don't know if this has changed.

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Without opponent, no match.

Do you have a source for this? Never heard about this before and does not seem logical to me. As I always understood penhold grip lost popularity because the backhand was not strong enough and too vulnerable. Of course later this changed with reverse penholder backhand.

_________________
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Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
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I don't think either statement is entirely correct. The "problem" of a weak backhand arose when general tabletennis tactics began to focus on looping close to the table, around the mid 1990s. In every other respect but looping, the backhand of penholders was never weaker than the backhand of shakehanders, and penholder world-champions proved that time and again. The reverse backhand was a way to get a backhand loop close to the table, but it has always been an issue among chinese coaches, as it gives penholders a transition point, a weakness which they do not have when playing single-sided. Japanese and Korean penholders, playing further away from the table, always had a backhand loop and they have never adopted the reverse backhand. And at the present, with equipment that has increased the speed, looping close to the table has become a less dominant aspect of the game; probably as a result of this, there is much less interest in the reverse backhand, and more in forehand-dominated play of fast attack, at which penholders excel even if playing single-sided.
When the traditional penholder style declined in China, the government was so worried about losing something of value, that the rule was instated that at least one member of teams playing for China should be a penholder. This was around 1990, I think. For the women this rule was abandoned; I don't know how it is with the men, now.

By the way, my source is a number of emigrated chinese players, a former member of the women's national team among them.

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Without opponent, no match.

I came across this interesting video clip and learned something about the history of reverse penhold backhand (RPB). It is in Chinese but I want to share this with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kejlEjOm ... re=related

In the mid to late 1980's, Chinese penhold players were losing. Coach Xu shaofa predicted that Europe (Sweden) and others (Korea) would beat the Chinese style penhold unless some drastic changes were made soon. Although there was a lot of resistance from other Chinese coaches, Xu persisted and pressed for that change: RPB. The rest of the story you already know: then came along LGL, Ma Lin, Wang Hao, and now Xu Xin. Look at this video and see how many famous players (then younger) you recognize.

I saw Xu shaofa played in the 1970's. He was not the best but his high throw service was considered the best. He was the master or "magician" of service. I think LGL learned the serving from Xu.

Fully agree with comments above - PENHOLD RULES!

But comfort and muscle preference have a role in choosing which grip is correct.

I started out as a tennis guy way back when Borg was King and JO was only a teenager. Once the muscles set in, its really hard to switch. I believe the fingers are quite important in stroking with the penhold grip.

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A big bag full of blades and long pimples, donuts and coffee!

I can't understand a word said in that penholder video but it does seem to support the theory that penholder players became too vulnerable on the BH (in the waldner match several points to BH are shown).

_________________
Competition bats:
Win-tec power def Tibhar 5Q sound Power Update 1.8 * Spinlord Agenda ox
TSP Balsa 3.5 Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound 1.8 * Grass D-tecs ox

Put to rest:
Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
Victas Koji Matsushita Tibhar Genius+Optimium sound MAX * Spinlord Dornenglanz ox
Donic Defplay Senso Tibhar Aurus Sound Black max * Grass D-tecs ox

Check out my quest for my new blade here: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23241
Current standings:
Butterfly Matshushita powerdefence * Joola Chen Weixing * Nittaku KVU * Nittaku Shake defense* Tibhar stratus power defense * Victas Koji Matsushita * Yasaka Sweeper * Win-Tec power defence