OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Learn to loop it with a shorter stroke (even slower if necessary) to the opponents most uncomfortable position. Don't worry about how much spin you are generating but consistency of getting the ball over the net. Just don't loop into their hitting power.

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The problem is unless you are using the loopers own spin against him with long pips against loops and building it up over consecutive chops, it's just not possible to generate heavy enough backspin to stop a loop, not with inverted, all you end up doing is helping him hold the ball on the table with lower and more deadly loops, the only time you are going to win with a chop is when it's got almost/no spin. I've been playing a long time and I've never come across anyone who can chop "heavy" with inverted where the ball says anything other than here I am, eat me.

I would say leatherback made a good point about why bother looping against player who can block them back all day forever without missing and there are times when that is true. I've found a few times in my life that all you end up achieving looping to some players is wearing yourself out. It happens, but it happens so rarely that you don't often have to go to that plan B. Plan B of trying to outpush or out block a pusher doesn't generally work for a looper either lol although is may get you closer than looping. Best success for me in that case is to try and make them attack me and then counter attack by running in on anything short and going for an angle.

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Donic defplay senso
Haifu whale soft (grips-euro)
Nittaku pimplemini 1.0mm

foam I am inclined to believe you but I can point out that my mentor, who has been chopping with inverted H2 max on both sides, for decades, he's 65 now and started at 15, he's chops are so heavy that a properly trained Indian kid fromIndia who plays like Hermet Desai (he had the same coach) couldn't even loop one of his heavy chops, and he had defeated easily a top gun sp/lp player at my "real" club without breaking a sweat well it was 21-14 classic rules and only 1 game. He uses his whole body and arm to jab underneath the ball and for lower rank guys like me, the balls just die off my pips as i try to lift. I haven't seen as many players as you have so my observations may be flawed but I have been playing with this guy for 4 years and I have been to different clubs in my city and have seen players like Sun Jian Fei and I've been to leatherbacks club but only once...of course his points are always insightful and accurate as are yours.

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Ummm.. if your loops keep missing, it's time to start pushing. And if your pushes keep getting attacked it's time to start looping...

(At least, this is what life is like for us perennial 1200-level players...)

Iskandar

Gotta say I disagree. Heavy inverted chop is just rare because it has to be learned and practiced. It is a matter of technique and racket speed. An aggressive inverted chop done with a full legs and body stroke that starts from head level and ends with wrist snap can be just as heavy as a loop and will challenge players to lift it. Look at the pro choppers to see them start every chopping stroke at head level to get racket speed. You don't learn that stroke from passively guiding the ball back with a small arm hand motion. It takes drilling to get that attacking level of severe chop just like drilling to develop the loop. If you want to see someone who still uses the inverted chop a lot look at videos of Chtchetinine.

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Hallmark Phoenix ox

Revisiting this thread as its my ongoing battle. Its really hard to know what is right as when we are all taking about whats best, we are also at lots of different levels of ability.

Despite all my forehand and loop/topspin/counter training, I've been tackling things in a variety of ways. The previous 2 comp nights I was pretty aggressive both trying to loop (or in my case topspin) backspin serves and also anything that looked long. The result was a couple of unenjoyable floggings due to errors. Despite knowing that in the long run it might be the way to go, in the short term until I get a bit better its a bit of a waste of time and my loss of interest could come before my ultimate improvement.

So on Wednesday I calmed down with the intent to just rally, be patient and take my opportunities. If it were pushing rallies, so be it, if it was returning with a bit of topspin rather than all out smash, that was ok too. I did attack more pushes than months ago but not as many as a couple of weeks ago. Rather than try and kill every topspin, I was content to just get it back at 70%.

At my level, I'm thinking that 3rd ball attack means different to someone a lot higher level. My 3rd ball attack I think is perhaps that 70% rather than kill but not if its a backspin serve, in that case I was just doing a higher push, trying to take some spin off the ball to be able to set up an attack later. If my opponent wants to have a crack and is good enough to put it away, good on them. What I experienced was that at my level there wasn't any real danger of my returns being consistently put away, they weren't prepared to attack it and were really just putting it back into play. Sure on occasion it was put away but thats table tennis. Other times my opponent made errors and gave me a free point but most times the ball just came back with no real threat so I was able to be patient and wait that little bit longer for a better ball to attack.

The result was that against a player I lost 3-0 last week, I beat 4-1 this week. Results are important as we have a type of relegation system each season and I really don't want to go back to B grade, in fact I'm looking to climb a couple of spots so don't really want to lose for the sake of experimenting.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

The lower the level of play, the less looping is better for good result. Many players over attack and lose because on unforced error. Attacking is such fun...

I play weekly agains amateur, who loves to BH smash/loop, and is very happy when it succeeds. Well, the percentage is aroud 30 % and lot of them come back, so it's clearly a losing strategy agains me. He don't play in tournaments, so he hasn't got a good idea winning safe play strategy in the low levels.

I think you should pick very easy balls to attack, where you have enough time to aim the shot. Looping long serves is quite advanced strategy and I would not recommend it, as it might become frustrating.

And I would recommend to just play safe attacks instead of all out attacks. And take notice of your consistency. If your attack fail over 50-60 % of time, you must move to even easier balls for attacks.

If you risk relegation then you should just play the way that will guarantee the best results. After.that however, if you are keen to keep improving, keep trying to loop long serves and long pushes. All you have to do for now is spin them up safely, you dont need to blast them. Aim to get the ball over the net, not on the table (the topspin will do that for you). In the level you are playing a slow spinny loop will probably win the point anyway. Remember, even though the shot is not fast the swing must be fast. If you swing slow the ball ends in the net. Also, make sure you dont follow thru under your eyes. It took me a good year to loop competently. Be patient, you will get it eventually and once you do you will immediately jump a few levels.

Yes, I would also recommend concentrating on the spinny opening loop and trying to land that shot as good as possible. When that succeeds, speed can be added.

All good points thankyou, though my level is not quite where a slow spinny loop would win a point but I get the gist. Carbonman, I'm playing some about foams level if you know what that is, though well beaten, down to a couple notches lower where doing ok. I guess I'm planning to loop/topspin the balls that are fairly light to medium backspin and improve from there. Arm speed is an issue.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

If you loop heavy enough and deep enough you would be surprised how many points you would win.

Regarding arm speed - just go for it and swing as fast as you can. Remember to use your legs and torso as well though.

Well, one thing I learned yesterday - when the wind blows, lay off looping! Doesn't matter if you're upwind or downwind.

Iskandar

While it is generally in your best interests to loop an incoming long underspin ball when you are close to the table, you might not yet be ready to see all those pushes coming to the area you are ready to go into action. If an opponent pushes to your crossover and your knees are not flexed and you try to step around and loop, you are inviting disaster. Your loop might land, you might be lucky and the loop troubles opponent enough to win the point, but that is a lot of MIGHT and relying on luck. Certainly you would not be in a position to continue the attack or even get to the ball if opponent blocked the loop.

There is the argument of play it safe and be consistent. Heck, if you do not miss, you do not lose the point, but that usually leads to the opponent getting too much of an initiative, so that doesn't work all the time.

Trying to loop everything long will easily see you miss a lot right now and that may be losing more points than you were losing before, but it is valuable match practice and experience that leads to higher consistency on that shot in a match, if your associated fundamentals are in good order.

It is best to practice doing this in practice matches where there is less risk to your season. You still get good improvement that can help you in a real match where there is something on the line, but nothing replaces that kind of match experience.

Your confidence plays a HUGE role in how you successfully implement what you want to do. Confidence can come from success in training, and in your practice matches. In many things, confidence comes form a strong belief in the preparedness you get from your training, your experience, and the faith that you can apply it and overcome when the going gets tough.

Improving in this area of course doesn't happen overnight and it doesn't happen by wishing it. Improvement will require a lot of failing and your willingness to go through that if the rest of what you are dong is sound will help out a lot with time.

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Frankly with modern rubbers if someone is missing shots regularly it means they're not really to loop, and they should know this. If they're at the point where proper drive (hard stroke through the ball) of anything higher than the net is landing, then the loop is just an option for low and dipping shots.

But let's step back and try to understand the situation of the entry level ~1500 looper. This is around the time when those who prefer an attacking style (no doubt in part informed by players on TV) start to learn to loop/drive. They've no doubt watched videos, gotten tips/advice, or even paid for a coach to make corrections on the minutia of technique. After a while their form will look about right, but something is amiss when you stand on the end of those topspins. Their "loops" aren't powerful kicking shots but more akin to fishing at the table. Even worse, the shots regardless have an effect on ~1500 peers who handle spin poorly and simply make mistakes due to variation in topspin, thus leading our looper to be quite content.

After many many of hours of perfecting the consistency of this shot and moving up somewhat, our looper tackles the level above and this sort of topspin fishing only produces perfect sitters. If they post this dilemma online or wherever they'll no doubt get all sorts of advice on imperfections in form or transitions, strategic tips, etc, etc, followed by practicing these adjustments and the circle closes (ie swirling around intermediate level for years). Then it must be a problem with their equipment and thus the road to composite blades and tenergy and minute improvements at best. It certainly doesn't happen to everyone, but it's for sure a fate to avoid for the motivated player.

In this context, the loop should be more of a landmark towards the end of a path to attack ever lower and harder shots, not something to master by itself and magically become an advanced player.

Happy to report that I avoided relegation. Quite easily in the end. My new game of patience paid off. I was pretty much giving my opponent the opportunity to make mistakes whilst also putting away balls at the first chance I had. If it meant pushing rallies against a player not attacking much I was happy to do it until I got a decent ball. If my opponent were attacking I'd make sure I kept the ball out of their obvious hit zone but also be aggressive. I'm not ready to loop/topspin a medium to heavy backspin ball but neither are most of my opponents.

In the end I finished 7th out of the 14 full time players in the top division of our club (though its comparatively quite weak compared to other clubs). The pleasing thing for me though was moving above 3 players in the rankings that I was below last season. The players immediately above me are the ones that my goal was to able to be at that level.

Looking forward to next season now.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm