OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Students who don't listen or change?
Ill tell the story first
I have one older student in his mid 50's he has only been in a few times but said he wanted to focus on his backhand as he looses too many points there
so I get him to take it easy with some backhand rallies , explaining for him to not get in a sword fighting stance (to get him and his legs to slightly face my backhand side) and also take the ball from in front of himself and move to the ball, we try this for 10-15 mins and every ball he is attack mode, so I explain we have to work as a team to keep the ball going , later we can speed it up, he still attacks, so I get him on the robot so I can help with his hand start position , feet placement and target area, he says just let him attack, and I explain by being in a better position he can attack more. anyway the lessons just go like that
With all students I get them to show me there serves, and I give them advice from there, he served from the right side so I explain that is how others can pick on his backhand so I think this helped as he has learnt to do his fav serves from the left and some new ones, we try and work on doing a pivot so he can understand that he can do forehands from the backhand side when needed, and he starts off good and then just does two backhands while I pick up the balls off the ground

I generally find most adults absorb new information like a sponge whether they put it into their games is another thing) but they normally listen good and work hard, but some just want to do there own thing

So the question is do I keep explaining or just let them go for it and take their money?

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Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
NZ table tennis selector, ask a question
My Blog here..How table tennis objects are made
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String this one out and milk it for all it is worth.

This kind doesn't want to improve to the degree you think they need, they are mostly happy if they have more and more fun or do something better they can show off powerfully at work or around their close group.

Keep feeding him easier balls and when he makes two smashes in a row "compliment" him on his smashing.

Remember to look impressed at what he does every few weeks and tell him in front of others... this is good, both for his ego and your wallet.

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@DE: I see your point, as I am sure Rodderz does as well. Giving the player a drill to perfect what he already does well, and boost his ego in the process. That is sufficient improvement for the average recreational player, and easy money for the average coach. Win-win situation.
However, not all of us do our coaching for money...

@Rodderz: I know that situation, sort of...
I have a couple of players who turn up occasionally, and they want to be considered for team/tournament play for the club. Decent players, but far from excellent, and they don't take instruction at all. Those are in their mid teens, so not the same age group as the one you mentioned, but probably have the attitude towards the game that Der_Echte indicates: they mainly want to show off in a social setting.

So what do I do? I give them some attention, try to boost egos, and also have a few hits sometimes.

My first priority is the players who listen, turn up regularly, and show a motivation to become really good (talent is secondary, most of the time). Second priority is the adults (mostly) who come for physical exercise and/or social motivation. The show-offs are lower priority but still important, because they spread the word about the club, so I give them some attention. They will surely mention the fact that they are "club players", and possibly draw "real" players to the club.

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My blog of failures, etc., also containing equipment list at "resurrection" (referred to in a few of my early posts), and my current lineup
Rating in the middle/low range in the region.
Moderating the LP Attacking subforum in the Technique section.

The majority of my pupils are over 50 and a delight to coach. They are generally focused and committed and, due to their longer attention spans, they don't mind spending decent chunks of time working on important but tedious technical issues.

I have 2 pupils who are in a similar boat to rodderz's student. I really like them personally so i keep coaching them and do the best that i can whilst also letting them know what I think. One is a beginner standard (66ish) and his overwhelming problem is his pushing but he only wants to practice advanced shots like banana flicks and blocks off my loops. I indulge him but make it very clear that he will gain little from it and, as a bargaining tool, insist that he must also do some pushing.

The other pupil is around US2050 (in his 50s) and would really rocket ahead if he knuckled down, trained systematically, and worked on the fundamentals. However, he lacks discipline and mainly wants to practice the more spectacular areas such as fast looping. I do my best to get him to work on the boring (but necessary) stuff but the sessions are never ideal from my perspective.

As to whether to let them go and take their money i think it is up to you. As long as you let them know that not training properly will retard their improvement, i can't see any ethical issues. Personally I really dislike coaching players where they don't improve so, if i have a full book, i will generally farm such students off to other coaches.

Yes well said, I don't charge much for coaching $10.00NZ per hour, most charge $25.00 to $50.00, even some have no qualifications
mind you this student is trying to barter me down, last time he asked I asked him to leave ( so tight around here)

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Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
NZ table tennis selector, ask a question
My Blog here..How table tennis objects are made
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The other funny thing that was happening when my older student was ball whacking, a player from Norway came in because he read about me.
so one customer filling the floor up with tt balls and asking for a discount, While I'm saying I have students coming from around the World waiting for you to finish lol

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Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
NZ table tennis selector, ask a question
My Blog here..How table tennis objects are made
Table Tennis abbreviations, and acronyms

Good one!

_________________
My blog of failures, etc., also containing equipment list at "resurrection" (referred to in a few of my early posts), and my current lineup
Rating in the middle/low range in the region.
Moderating the LP Attacking subforum in the Technique section.

You get paid to teach them. That is all. You do not get paid to make them listen. You may get frustrated that the don't listen and maybe they are highly annoying people. When the pain of that frustration/annoyance exceeds the value of what they pay you (or the value of your time spent some other way), then stop teaching them.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

I'm commenting on this thread from a perspective of a student.

I agree with Keme that talent cannot be expected from most of us, but motivation is key. The fact that that student is there to seek some "coaching" is a first step. You then have to clarify, what they want or expect.

Not everyone will have the same goal. Some would like to be competitive at their level and would like a few pointers as to how to be a better player. I know most reply would be to improve your technique, because it all comes down to basic! So you give them the instructions and illustrate it in the process, but give them time to implement it.

I never had the benefit of coaching when I was young, so old habits are hard to break, but I am willing to learn and have taken coaching lessons here and there. However putting everything that you've learned into play is another matter. Maybe I am limited, I can live with that.

But what I would expect from a coach is honest feedback. If I am not getting it right, tell me what I am persistently doing wrong, and then remind me every now and then. Lots of things to remember when you are on that court: foot work, body position, back swing, timing of contact.... too much instructions sometimes is counterproductive.

So if the student keeps coming back, constantly remind them of what to do and when you do see them execute the stroke correctly, be sure to tell them "that's the one".... and hopefully muscle memory will kick in after some time, but above all, give them time to learn at their own pace. They may never become perfect with regards to execution, but in their mind they know what the correct technique is and with persistence and encouragement I believe the "aha!" moment will come.

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Excellent post arlene!

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Some students just want someone to hit with who will push them to be better just by setting up rally situations. Others want detailed tips on technique. Really it is all fine as long as everything is communicated in advance. Everybody has to treat the other person with a degree of respect, and expectations have to be realistic. Adults are easy in that regard --- usually. Kids can be quite different. Their brains are not fully formed and are so plastic. It is really a different ballgame.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

Agreed.

I help coach about 40 junior high boys and girls every Monday, and they are a different breed altogether.

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I would not go on for a long time with a guy like him.
Sometimes I give single lessons to people and I want to work with them and help them to improve. This is fun for me, because I enjoy when they realize how they can play table tennis in a better way.
With such a guy it would be like hard work for me, of course it is work, but I dont enjoy it.

So of course it is your choice, but I would drop him after a few times, if I don't see the will to listen to me and improve table tennis skills.
It also depends on what you agreed on before. Just playing or improving with good advice from the coach. If it is only playing it's ok. But working on table tennis skills and the guy doesn't want to listen makes no sense.

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Werner Schlager Academy - Table Tennis School in Vienna, Austria:
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good comments there, well he went on holiday but never came back anyway, In general I quitr like helping adults and usually try and add things to their game rather than trying to change too much, sometimes they learn fast and others go to thier 30 years of TT shot within 5 seconds lol

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Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
NZ table tennis selector, ask a question
My Blog here..How table tennis objects are made
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well said the best thing is if a student comes in some ideas where they know of a problem and we can get straight into it, i find adults don't need 10-15 mins of forehand to forehand stuff etc compared to a 12 year old, I find working on their worst problem and giving them some new serves and some new stratagy is like a breath of life and easy for them to remember

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Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
NZ table tennis selector, ask a question
My Blog here..How table tennis objects are made
Table Tennis abbreviations, and acronyms