OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hi all. Im new to this site. Its nice to see a dedicated pips player forum. Ive always been an inverted rubber player. One of the reason is that, what I used to believe, I will always be at the mercy at what my opponent spin given to me. That is, if the server gives me a heavy backspin, there is only two things that I can do. 1) knuckle ball/no spin ball 2) topspin balls. My question is, with all th development in new rubbers/pimple arrangements today, that this theory still holds true? How about for short pips?
Thanks.

Short pips are for flat hitting through spin. Long pips vary from sticky ones that can give underspin back when an opponent chops to you, to frictionless that give back a mirror of the spin they received.

Higher level l/p players tend to use pips that are inbetween, and manipulate the spin they are returning. However, frictionless pips are still occasionally being used at a pro level.

_________________
Custom Re-Impact OFF
Hexer HD 1.9
Hexer Pips 1.9

Member of Anastasia's Fan Club

Eyy shoebox, thanks.
A follow up question if you dont mind, If they are sticky LP's, whats the difference with them as opposed to inverted rubbers when it comes to spin production. Can they, sticky LP's, also do reversal of spin?
Also, what are examples of those rubbers "pips that are in between"? Thanks!

Hi fr33,
I am using Nittaku Screw Soft. I think it is probably an inbetween LP. It will reverse spin on blocks and soft hits but if you hit or loop hard, it gives enough topspin to get it back.
When you loop Hard with it, the change in speed and small topspin causes lots of problems for them to read it right.
Most usefull if you twiddle alot.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

Thank you hookshot.
So basically, if Im getting this correctly, if you just graze the ball it'll give you spin reversal but if you let the ball bite more in the sponge/rubber it'll actually produce its own spin. Hmm.. interesting. Please correct me if Im wrong.
Sorry about lots of questions in here but the only time Ive tried to use a pips out rubber was like 8 yrs ago for about <30 mins. . And nobody wanted to do backhand drills with me with that rubber, and I dont blame them really, so I didnt pursue it.

1) Do I need a hard/rigid blade to fully maximize pips effect? Im using Tibhar Alpha which is a pretty soft blade for the last 6 yrs now. FH-Rapid Express BH- Rapid DTecs (slightly getting tired regluing thus the DTecs)
2) Do I have to change to a smashing game/hitter type of play? My type of play is a controlled looping game, pre dominantly forehand loops. My backhand loop is passable but inconsistent. Im planning to use pips on BH only.
3) Any thoughts or suggestions to make the transition easier and less frustrating?
Again, thank you guys!

Have a read of some of the article in the PIPS website section...might give you some more background...

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Thanks for the input Speedplay.
Haggisv, thank you very much for this website and Im trying to read all of the postings here. Im fairly new to this site and I havent had the chance to read them all. There is much to learn from all of you guys. The reason Ive asked this questions, primarily so that the plan and equipment, would be more tailored to my type of play. Especially on the equipment section which I dont know much when it comes to pips.
I'm past being an equipment junkie (wheww, thank God for that ) and I believe that the best rubber right now in is the one you have been using for the last 6 months. Im trying to find a suitable pips rubber for myself coz I dont wanna end up with trial and error. I know the rubber boils down to personal choice and feeling but hopefully I could narrow it down. Plus, I also trust you guys more with your experiences with it than reading it on what it does via the manufacturers website or magazine
Any other help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

fr33,
I must correct one thing you said, about brushing the ball. You can block a drive and it will reverse the spin, at least with Screw Soft. If you do a Kong looking loop, you know, start at your toes and finish up hi, and just brush the ball, you get a "little" topspin and the speed comes off dropping the ball just over the net. That is against incoming topspin.
Players find it hard to believe there is not alot of topspin on a shot like that and I don't mean just beginners. I played a 2200+ guy and after he put a couple in the net, he got cautious and started pushing them back.
If you counter drive a loop with LPs, it also gets a "little" topspin and a low spin or no spin ball is harder to hit back than a shot with lots of top. The reason is incomming top is changed to your topspin going out with inverted. Thats why they have trouble trying to hit a drive or loop from your LPs.
Pushing serves will reverse spin. Looping serves with the LP can give real funny spin returns.
I have only tried the Screw Soft LP. It is working so well for me that I have no plans to try others so I can't compare it to others, only tell you what it will do. Hows that for a statement for an EJ? LOL. Tried about 15 bats and 30+ rubbers in the last 3 or 4 years but only one LP.

_________________
Shakehand, left handed.
Blade, Yinhe, W-1
Forhand, H-3 National
Backhand, Sriver FX Max

hookshot: You must have been winning too many game... lose a few more and you'll go back to your EJ habbits

fr33_loader: It will be hard to pick the exact one that workjs for you, but narrowing it down is a good idea.

I would suggest picking a cheap one that suits your criteria... and give this a go. Then you'll get some good ideas of that these rubbers can do. If you that one, great! If not you have not lost much, and have gainned a lot of knowledge of what you DO want...

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Thanks a bunch guys for all the suggestions.

Yeah this is what I do, plus against backspin its very effective because you reverse spin the backspin as topspin.

I used frictionless to start with - its a good training ground actually to understand the principles of reverse spin. With soft pips you really need someone to coach you in the strokes and the theory. For a beginner it is hard to win points with soft pips.

_________________
Tibhar Grass D.techs OX | Donic BigSlam 2.0mm .
Re-Impact Medusa (balsa / 1-ply cherry wood)
Frictionless strokes | Attacking pip strokes | Greggy's advice | Bollsbrother | Sebastian Sauer . . . . . .

LOL but it sounds a good one.

The other thing in this style of play (and fr33 please note this is a minority style of long pip play) is the punch block, where instead of looping the ball you "hit" it and move you arm upwards in a looping motion. Instead of carrying topspin the ball is now carrying either no spin or backspin (a sink). I'll modify that last bit getting a sink ball to look like a looping stroke is incredibly difficult - only one player has ever really managed to do it, but shifting the topspin around using "loop looking strokes" isn't too hard. Also you are doing this stroke with very thin sponge you could ..... I'm waffling. Executing a sink ball with pips is pretty easy ts just difficult to disguise it.

Whats nice about this style is you are whacking the ball really hard and then twiddle even it the opponent sees it they have very little time to adjust.