OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I wouldn't mind the net going back to 6 3/4 if we got the 38mm ball back.

At the end of the day modern equipment won't lead to the chiseling of yesteryear.

Mnnb you say the potential new ball is less spinny

I'm with hookshot let the ITTF tell us their vision, what changes they want, why and how they are going to achieve them. Then we can vote them out and get back to playing table tennis instead of this dumbed down rubbish they have us playing atm.

I'd rather play Liha or hardbat, it seems more honest to me.

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Another one bites the dust.

I can't help but rising to your bait in your posts re -LP's and ITTF changes (proposals etc...), but here goes, if you were clever, skilful or intelligent enough to be able to use LP's then you would know what it is like to feel "the pain" inflicted by the ITTF, but no, you just continue to insult players and their rightful concerns, where is your compassion?

I hope you will be able to laugh on the other side of your face when (hopefully) inverted rubbers come under the cosh!

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I'm stating that we shouldn't believe every rumour and every rumour of a rumour.

All we've been given to work with is: "Donn Olsen, the author of the PATT table tennis books, a coach at the Werner Schlager Academy in Austria and a big fan of Adham, has posted on another forum that the ITTF is currently experimenting with different increased net heights. He writes 'my personal sense is that 1 inch would not be enough. Were I to guess, I would say 2 inches.'"

Just because Olsen is the author of a TT book doesn't make him an authority on what the ITTF may or may not do, so scratch the PATT reference. Ditto for where he coaches. We have nothing other than your opinion that he's a "big fan of Adham", whatever that means. (After all, I've been accused of being a fan-boy of Sharara's - I don't know the guy, I have no particular reason to like him or dislike him, and I'm nobody's fan-boy, but what would I know?) The forum that he is supposed to have posted on is not cited and there's no evidence that he has any knowledge of what the ITTF may or not be "experimenting with". Again, if they're "experimenting", where, with whom, how, where's the evidence?

So what we're left with is a rumour, picked up heaven knows where, that Donn Olsen thinks the ITTF may or may not be at some undisclosed time in the future possibly going to change the net height by some unknown degree. Pretty convincing stuff so far. And that is then followed up with a truly scientific statement: "my personal sense is that 1 inch would not be enough. Were I to guess, I would say 2 inches."

Duh!

BTW, what was the date 119 days ago?

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"So long, and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this" Sung by the dolphins in The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

I assumed there you were pointing at April fool's but if so your maths is awry ....... I get back to 2nd March..... what's the significance or is my math wrong?

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While I agree you can't believe every rumour that goes around, often information about facts start out as a leak. If there is no evidence to back the leak it is considered rumour. Given the guy is possibly in a position to receive such a leak you cannot just discount it. Its good to have the discussion about it given thats what we do here on the forum. The impact on the game of such a change would be huge. Even if it never sees reality its not a bad thing to discuss the "what-ifs" of a higher net on different game styles, whether it be an inch, 2 inches, half an inch etc.

119 days ago was about mid-march btw, not April 1st

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Still a rumour. And I'm emailing Donn Olsen to ask for some hard evidence. I'll let you know if he replies.


Boy is my face red! 89 days ago?

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"So long, and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this" Sung by the dolphins in The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

Tassie, Donn Olsen is a respected long time member of the table tennis community and is a coach at the Werner Schlager Academy which is widely considered the top TT training facility in the western world. As a result, he is very much in the loop and regularly speaks to movers and shakers in the sport. For example, today he posted some very interesting information from Dr. Georg Nicklas, founder of Donic and owner of the ESN factory which produces 1/3 of the world's table tennis rubbers.

I do consider Olsen to be an authority on the ITTF and table tennis in general and I see no reason to doubt his credibility.

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I remember fondly Donn Olsen recommending all players to rub ball on your opponent's LPs before matches to test friction for yourself...

And yes, he's a respected figure in the ITTF community and author of the nearly incomprehensible PATT book... Rarely has a book said so much but yet so little... He could write ten paragraphs to describe how to loop against underpin, when a quick look at Wang Liqin's forehand will do.

Don't get me wrong, he has his share of supporters... I just hate his verbose style of writing, which strongly reminds me of some extremely dry academic textbooks forced down my throat in college. I just want to pull all my hairs out and shout "Where's beef??!!!"

He comes up with some interesting posts or "PATT Notes" now and then (as well as some clunkers). I'd call him an authority to the extent that he seems to have good contacts, has written two TT books and is considered to be knowledgable enough to coach elite players at the Schlager Academy. I agree the first PATT book is terrible. I wonder if they use it at the Schlager Academy as a textbook?

The fact that he's a big Adham fanboy gives him major points off in my book, but his comments are not without value.

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Many. Yes.

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Yes, this is all public knowledge. But unless we hear directly from him, it's all speculation a.k.a. rumour.

So, instead of panicking about the stability of the sky, why not ask the man himself?

How about, "Donn, could you enlighten us, please?"

Hi (Tassie),
 
Sure, I can provide a few observations.
 
This started in the About.com forum with a posting that the "seamless" ball was going to be introduced after the London Olympics.  I wrote this reply:
 
I also know someone who knows someone who knows someone that declared another post-London Olympics high likelihood: a higher net.

So, as you can see, this "information" is at best 3rd hand.  I have no other information that is more precise.  Without revealing my sources, I will say the people involved are senior people in the sport with high credibility.  In my judgment, I will say that at least a thorough behind-the-scenes inquiry will be conducted to see what the major table tennis powers think of the higher net proposal.  As with the ball size change, it is typical to implement a change post-Olympics.
 
Although from the outside looking in, the ITTF may seem capricious, they are a deliberative body, and consider their decisions thoughtfully.  This change would be no different and the ease of experimentation is very great, so it is certain they will evaluate the effects on the table.
 
Because of ITTF changes, such as the banning of "frictionless" pips and speed gluing, implementing the two-color rule for rubber, multiple service rule changes, increasing the ball size, and banning any alteration of the rubber sheet post-factory, all students of the sport are constantly on the lookout for the next big thing.  The ITTF has taken an activist position in the sport and has pledged to continue to seek "improvements".  Among the options available, the least disruptive to the sport's equipment base is raising the net.  Nothing will diminish the onslaught of new rubbers and blades, for our sport has learned from golf and tennis that "new and improved" is the greatest stimulus for increased sales, thus there is virtually no political viability for restrictions in the inverted rubber area to realize fundamental changes to the nature of the sport.
 
My guess that 2 inches would be the proposal for the net height change is based on the strong sense that the ball size increase did not attain objectives desired.  The only motivation for changing the net height would be to alter play in an appreciable way.  This suggests more, not less.  Two inches is a significant change, at least as a percentage of the current height.
 
As to the effects on the game; the ball will be bouncing higher than before, as it must to clear the additional height, though the bounce will not be higher relative to the net, so it is not clear what effect it may have.  In rally shots, the tendency will likely be more "looping" arcs, especially with shots that are contacted at lower heights.  The change may promote players changing their body-to-table relationship, with a step or two farther back from the table to allow the ball to rise more prior to contacting it during rallies.  I'm confident the creative souls among us will experiment with this and report in.
 
Please use this reply as you please.
 
Best Wishes,
 
Donn      

Please note that Donn Olsen himself says, "this 'information' is at best 3rd hand". So, we're still in the realm of speculation.

Secondly, Donn looks at the ITTF as "activist". What are the implications of that? For a start, it wouldn't hurt if we were also activist. If we hear a rumour (a.k.a. 3rd hand information) then we should investigate and be proactive. In this instance, do our own experimenting and feed the results directly to the ITTF as well as to people who can lobby for us, e.g. William Henzell, forum member and member of the Players Representative body of the ITTF.

Thirdly, note that time is on our side. Any change to net height is very unlikely before 2016 (after the next Olympics after the next Olympics).

Fourthly, is Donn right when he suggests "our sport has learned from golf and tennis that 'new and improved' is the greatest stimulus for increased sales, thus there is virtually no political viability for restrictions in the inverted rubber area to realize fundamental changes to the nature of the sport"? What are the long term implications of this statement?

Finally, "two inches" - does anybody really know what the game would look like with the net raised that far? Please post your videos so we can all get some idea. (Before and after footage would be even better, just so that we know how well or otherwise you were playing with the net where it currently is. )

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"So long, and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this" Sung by the dolphins in The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

Thank you for getting more information. He had already posted this publicly, so all he did is elaborate on what we have already been discussing. Do still think he is a rumormonger?

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Good on you for following this up and getting a response Tassie52! Very interesting!

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See, I knew you really loved me!

Actually I never thought he was spreading rumours. I thought he was "guessing" - and if we read his email we see that he is still only expressing an opinion about something which may or may not happen. I think that his level of "inside information" is a whole lot closer to reality than any guessing I may be doing, but it's still only informed guesswork.

What I thought was unhelpful was the over-reaction of posters to something which may or may not happen, based at that point on a generalised and vague account taken from somewhere else without anything concrete to go upon. At least with direct input from Donn Olsen we can now ponder what the effect of raising the net might be like, if he turns out to be right. But remember:
Trying to predict the future is like trying to drive down a country road at night with no lights while looking out the back window.
Peter Drucker

And, for all those who are concerned the sky may be falling:
Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.
Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (121 AD - 180 AD), Meditations, 200 A.D.

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"So long, and thanks for all the fish
So sad that it should come to this" Sung by the dolphins in The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy

What are you talking about? This is a discussion forum and it's wholly appropriate to express our views on possible changes in the pipeline that will affect us. That a radical move like raising the net 33% is even being considered is appalling. This is yet another ITTF move that will hurt blockers and choppers and favor loopers. For players who have worked very hard to learn to play those styles there is no reason react any differently.

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Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics