OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Compare these two videos:

1. Excellent Exhibition rally This seems to fit what Adham is suggesting.



and this

2. Excellent Match rally



Which do you prefer? Which could you watch again and again?

To me the first clip is very good in isolation but competitor after competitor doing the same type of routine? The novelty would soon wear off. One of the great things about a table tennis match is the variety, the quickly won points are just as exciting as the long sustained points when everything is combined. Have too much of one ie all short points or all long points and it gets boring.

Worth noting is the match example is great to watch in isolation because as smartguy says, it's competitive - a battle between two players and not as would be the case in the first clip above a "partnership" point where the competitive element would only exist between "pairs" and not individuals.

Also, the match play was exactly that, match play between a defender and attacker so what Adham proposes can already take place in table tennis without the need for events like Adham suggests, if the ITTF concentrate on bringing back more variety in to the modern game and stop the "clone wars" ie fast attack constant attack predominance. Learn from mistakes from the past with mistakes from the present and encourage a variety of playing styles in ITTF events. Then every match will consist of "obvious" contrasts and variety but within the joys of a competitive match. In my opinion there would be no need for this event if the ITTF did that as table tennis matches would promote table tennis.

haggisv, would it be good for table tennis? I think the novelty of Adham's example would soon wear off after the first few "partnerships" had competed and that's wouldn't be of benefit to table tennis - it would soon become boring. We've already had the dominance of the third ball attack and the move to 11 point game to speed up the game and remove "dead points" ie the match being perceived as unimportant for spectators until 11:11 in a 21 up game. Why the obsession with time limits and short quick bursts. Have we really all got such a short attention span that we can only cope with 3 mins and if we have, 3 mins when applied to Adham's suggested new format will itself become a victim of the "short attention" span syndrome and will be seen to be too long. Both the points above are less than 45 seconds.

After 3 minutes of 5 "competing" partnerships and I'd be bored of Adham's suggested format and that would be my lasting impression of table tennis - great for a couple of minutes then boring to watch after that. I'd go find another sport to watch and maybe play.

I agree with what you're saying, although I can't watch the vids from my current location.

But it was my impression we were not choosing between one type of event or another... we were simply discussing if the event that Adham proposed was of any benefit. IMO it IS of benefit especially if the alternative is NOT having this event at all. Any extra events (in addition to existing events) would be of benefit... this is what I've been trying to explain...

Players that have had no interest in TT up to now, are very unlikely to come to a major TT event...they'd rather go and see a sport they know more about... they're plenty to choose from. However they may well come to a spectecular event like that one Adham is proposing... and if they see this side of TT, a portion of them may well give 'real' TT a go...

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OK, it was misunderstanding.

I would like to differentiate between 2 things:

1) Adham's Tennis as a new sport and

2) Adham's new sport as means to develop real TT

A agree, that nothing speaks against having Adham's new sport. I am not sure, whether this new sport can attract a lot of people and for how long, but if Adham wants to develop it, why not.

Whether Adham's new sport will help to develop real TT, is a quite different question. And here I doubt, in the first place because Adham's Tennis is a different sport. If people liked it, they would go in for it. But I do not see, why these people would say: "OK, Adham's Tennis is a nice thing, let us go and play real TT". They would rather go and play Adham's Tennis.

I would call this contest something like `TOP-GUNS RACE`.

DESCRIPTION:
-- Both man and woman players may enter for this contest as equals...
-- All the entra
nts are paired, and each of the paires is to perform a standard playing task. THE CONTEST TASK is to play a rally at the highest possible pace for 30 seconds. The strokes done in a rally are counted (a pair is entitled for TWO successive attempts).
--- The pair that comes off on the contest with the greatest total count of strokes is declared as Top Gunners.

A RECORD OF AN INTEREST: The highest ever pace in playing table tennis is 162 strokes in 60" and was recorded for Desmond Douglas partnered by Neil Jarveis of England far back in 1976

This is exactly my fear. Especially if this entertainment kicks off and makes more money like the 20/20 cricket. We even have the captain of the West Indies who see the death of test cricket and would not mind it one bit. After all, if one can make more money from one form of the sport, who cares about the other forms?

Cheers.

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Adham
Please clarify situation about ELIZE.
-- How soon do we see a full technical specifications on the device?? It does no credit to the WASSING Co* to keep the thing back from public`s eyes so far
-- Need ELIZE be used alone or as an auxiliary to the ENEZ ??
-- What price on ELIZE ?
----------------------
-- While at Yokohama WC, how many players faiiled to pass racket control in total and how many failed in ElLIZE test in particular?

Thanks

I think this is a great idea when I look at the history of Table Tennis in New Zealand every time there was a traveling side show of current or ex world champions visiting this country it created a big interest in the game and got alot of new and ex players started playing table tennis. So thinking outside the square maybe the way to go. I know in a purest sense its not Table Tennis but to me if its on TV and it creates interest then all good. I watched the sports news looking for ping pong and it showed 3 hits of the Mens final so about 30 seconds at 10.30 at night. now a days people want to be entertained so lets do it as we are up against so many new sports willing to go to the extreams

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I think it could be a valuable step forward for table tennis.

Smartguy, I think you are missing the point of it. It will not be a new sport and the purpose of it is not to be one. IMHO, the purpose is a promotional event to attract a new audience and new players to table tennis. Let's call it a showcase - a showcase that shows the outer limits of what is possible in table tennis albeit somewhat staged. In my view it is perfect for marketing to new audiences.

Hockey and figure skating is a bad example as they are not the same sport and uses different materials. Basketball and the Harlem Globetrotter Show is a much better one. It is staged and spectacular, but certainly does not deter people from playing basket even though it obviously does not play to the competitive rules of basketball. On the contrary, this show brings people in to basketball because it captures peoples imagination, makes them smile and wish that they could do the same thing. To capture the imagination is the first step to people wanting and deciding to try it out themselves.

I am all for trying this event. It may be a success, it may be a failure. But to advance TT we need to try new avenues to bring people in to local clubs. Once they come down to the local hall, it is up to the clubs to catch they and hook them, perhaps with their own staged exhibition games as hookshot does. After that the real training and graft starts for them.

This format seems very suited to TV and TT need all the exposure it can get to attract more people to try table tennis.

Actually, this concept is very much like any advertising on TV. The purpose of advertising is not to say that this is the coolest or best product in the world as they all claim to be just that. The purpose is to set the product apart through staged situations that speak directly to the selected market audience, all with the view to make them try the product out. The aim is to make that first buy, then it is up to the quality of the product to allow for repeat purchases. In this case, the advert is this new format and the quality of the product is the local clubs and how they receive, inspire and develop the interest in the newcomers, IMHO.

And yes, I have worked in advertising so I am the spawn of the devil as the brilliant Bill Hicks made clear more than a decade ago

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Fukuhara Ai beat that record when she was 12

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By association of train of thought I take it both of you are TT purists who only play hardbat then?

In principle you have apoint. Test cricket is the purest form of cricket and I do enjoy it. But... 20/20 came about because if the decreasing interest in test cricket. Test crickets demise was not brought on by 20/20, it was a reaction to it.Cricket had to react and evolve to survive. And 20/20 really has increase interest in cricket. In all forms of cricket, in fact

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I believe your train got derailed somewhere in your thought From hardbat to rubbered bats, it is the evolution of the game. Just like evolutions taken place in badminton, tennis, cricket bats etc. The main thing is the game were played with strategy, skills and competitive spirits. In other words, the game were kept as a sport rather than changed into an entertainment.

And I have to disagree with your observation that 20/20 has increased the interest in all forms of cricket. Did you know that the IPL 20/20 has even caused Sri Lanka to pull out of a scheduled competition against England so that their players can play in the more lucrative IPL? That is why a very reluctant West Indies team ended playing England in the current 2 test series. And it is no surprise that the West Indies were roundedly whooped by England after its captain comment about the death of Test cricket. AND he only arrived 2 days before the test begun. And this is players attitude we are talking about. And since players themselves are now less interested in TEST cricket, what chance audiences would want to watch reluctant players playing test cricket? No, 20/20 looks like the demise of test cricket unless the power to be do something about it.

And based on your line of argument with the consequence already seen with the 20/20 effect it has even on a national team decision to rather let its players play in another competition that pays more money, can I take it that you would be very happy to see other lower level players in a World Championship declared a world champion while the really top players like Wang Hao, Waldner, etc plays in an entertainment match? I personally don't think so as that is a very silly train of thought just like your train chuggling headlong that we should stick at hardbat just because we disagree with introducing an entertainment form of the sport Having said all that, I have to agree with your observation of the Globe Trotter impact on basketball which has been very positive. So who knows, Adham's idea could well work out if implemented correctly.

Cheers.

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Nope, it didn't derail, but it seems you were going too fast to read the signs along the way
I talked about your attitude to cricket. Going from test cricket to 20/20 is an evolution of the game even though you and Debater do not think so. Since you looked like purists when it comes to cricket I simply wondered if you'd prefer hardbats in TT on the same grounds

[SNIP] Too much cricket for a table tennis thread, I am afraid. We can take it private if you want though [SNIP]



No, I wouldn't be happy to see that. Then again, it never struck me that I ever would, simply because your example has little or no relevance to Adhams idea. The situation of lesser players winning the TT championship could not arise in the way you present it above. Test cricket and the IPL league have two different organising bodies, but the ITTF would be one body behind both events. ITTF would not be silly enough to organise those events at the same time. To expect them to do that is quite exceptional

Yes, the Globetrotters it what this is about. It is not a new sport intended to rival or replace the original. It is a show and a marketing tool with potential, IMHO. It will not harm our sport, but it could well be a good boost for it if organised once or twice in the off-season, a bit like other sports have Allstar games.

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Your assumption here is that there can only be ONE organising body for TT ever. If so, then very true. But if another body seeing the success of the entertainment events and decided to run its own and therefore collides with the ITTF schedules, what would happen then. Isn't that the same as when 20/20 was first introduced. It was one body then. But seeing the success, along comes the IPL with money. The rest is history.

Where I said your train is derailed is because you assumed that because we don't agree with the introduction of an entertaiment event, you assumed we don't agree to any changes. Hence you placing us back in the hardbat era. That is why I also purposely go totally derailed in assuming that because of what happened with the cricket event, so you are right, it is all derailed but on purpose AND if you don't believe I can be for change, then let there be total ban on all pips and antis. I will be all for it On the other hand, I might not want that to happen because it might spell the demise of this lovely forum

However, again, I do agree with your argument about the success of the Globe Trotter event. And therefore, if run properly likewise, Adham's idea can work. And yes, enough about other sports other than merely to illustrate our points.

Cheers.

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Dear Forum members,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR INPUT.

I am very pleased with the wide range of responses and the input you have provided for this idea. I now have a much clearer thinking on the type of event and how to present it:

- Annual event
- Highly publicized and promoted especially amongst celebrities
- Using mainly the older players that are retired from International competition, but still big names, such as Waldner, Guo Yuhua, etc., plus experienced players near the end of their career but who are spectacular and the public still enjoys watching them such as Persson, Saive, Kreanga, etc.
- Include top defensive players
- Present the event as a "show" in order not to confuse with our regular "serious" events
- Offer high prize money purse

I will keep you posted on the progress. Thank you again for your input.

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Adham Sharara

The difference with the Globe Trotters was that you knew who was going to win before it started - it was just a case of how they got there. At least with Adham's suggestion the winner will not be known before the start.

Brabhamista, I had to smile when you said

And then a few lines later wrote,

even if the second quote was in the context of a table tennis comparison.

As for hard bat table tennis - yes I do like it, and I have a hard bat with 2 sheets of Dr Evil on, but it's used only for fun challenges - if you both use this type of bat, talent will always win out - a true challenge and you can defend or attack with it so you get good variety. That said, I can't think of a rule change the ITTF could make which would make me stop playing table tennis - I love the game too much.

Back on topic, having watched some informal exhibition table tennis recently, and it's impact on people - in particular children - and now that Adham has clarified the suggested format, I have to revise my original position. Kids love the spectacular - as long as it's done well, which good prize money should ensure.

Adham, I notice you make no mention of a scoring system now, which was one of my major concerns with your original suggestion. If there is prize money, there must be winners and if there are winners there must be a way of deciding how they won. How will it be decided who wins and who decides this?

Ultimately the proof of the pudding will be in the eating! So let's dig in