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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 12:59 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Sure the national associations can do what they want, but it is difficult to justify going against the official laws of table tennis.

I believe the English TT Assn (which goes by the official laws -- as all national associations should) wanted the part about "ITTF authorised" to be removed from "the laws" to eliminate confusion over whether frictionless rubbers were allowed in play under ETTA jurisdiction (frictionless is allowed in England, but the anti-frictionless lobby used the "ITTF authorised" bit as an argument against). Now it is clear. Other associations should follow the lead of England and Sweden.


I am afraid, formally ITTF rules are just rules for ITTF events, not general official rules. And ETTA understands that. They have following paragraphs in their rules:

"57.1 All Competitive Table Tennis under the jurisdiction of the ETTA must be played under the ETTA Approved Laws of Table Tennis ('ETTA Approved Laws') except as provided by Rule 57.6.3 and 57.7.1.

57.4 Except as provided by Rules 57.6 and 57.7 the Approved Laws shall be those determined by the International Table Tennis Federation (hereinafter referred to as "the ITTF Laws").

57.6 A General Meeting may, by Special Resolution, decide
57.6.1 that the Approved Laws shall diverge from the ITTF Laws, or
57.6.2 that adoption of a change in the ITTF Laws shall be deferred for a specified period or
57.6.3 that there may be a specified divergence from the Approved Laws in respect of either a particular event or a specified class of event.
"

Hence if ETTA wanted to remove the words "ITTF authorised", they would simply pass a "Special Resolution". No rule change by ITTF necessary.

On the other hand, even now, if they want to allow frictionless rubbers, they probably need a special resolution. Because of "57.4" and the fact, that ITTF banned frictionless rubbers.


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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 13:18 
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Smartguy wrote:
I am afraid, formally ITTF rules are just rules for ITTF events, not general official rules. And ETTA understands that. They have following paragraphs in their rules:

"57.1 All Competitive Table Tennis under the jurisdiction of the ETTA must be played under the ETTA Approved Laws of Table Tennis ('ETTA Approved Laws') except as provided by Rule 57.6.3 and 57.7.1.

57.4 Except as provided by Rules 57.6 and 57.7 the Approved Laws shall be those determined by the International Table Tennis Federation (hereinafter referred to as "the ITTF Laws").

57.6 A General Meeting may, by Special Resolution, decide
57.6.1 that the Approved Laws shall diverge from the ITTF Laws, or
57.6.2 that adoption of a change in the ITTF Laws shall be deferred for a specified period or
57.6.3 that there may be a specified divergence from the Approved Laws in respect of either a particular event or a specified class of event.
"

Hence if ETTA wanted to remove the words "ITTF authorised", they would simply pass a "Special Resolution". No rule change by ITTF necessary.

On the other hand, even now, if they want to allow frictionless rubbers, they probably need a special resolution. Because of "57.4" and the fact, that ITTF banned frictionless rubbers.

They could have done that, but they went a more diplomatic route. The ETTA Approved Laws of Table Tennis with one variation (which says the ball must be ITTF approved) comply with Chapter 2 in the ITTF Handbook, the chapter which comprises the official Laws of Table Tennis. When updated, Chapter 2 will now no longer contain the offending ITTF authorization phrase. Frictionless rubbers are now fully accepted as legal there in events using ETTA rules.

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 13:32 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
They could have done that, but they went a more diplomatic route. The ETTA Approved Laws of Table Tennis with one variation (which says the ball must be ITTF approved) comply with Chapter 2 in the ITTF Handbook, the chapter which comprises the official Laws of Table Tennis. Chapter 2 now no longer contains the offending ITTF authorization phrase. Frictionless rubbers are now fully accepted as legal there in events using ETTA rules.


Then my first impression is, you may generally use rubbers not authorised by ITTF, not only frictionless ones. Maybe I misunderstand something.


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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 13:43 
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Smartguy wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
They could have done that, but they went a more diplomatic route. The ETTA Approved Laws of Table Tennis with one variation (which says the ball must be ITTF approved) comply with Chapter 2 in the ITTF Handbook, the chapter which comprises the official Laws of Table Tennis. Chapter 2 now no longer contains the offending ITTF authorization phrase. Frictionless rubbers are now fully accepted as legal there in events using ETTA rules.


Then my first impression is, you may generally use rubbers not authorised by ITTF, not only frictionless ones. Maybe I misunderstand something.

The way I understand it, any legal rubber without any physical, chemical or other treatment can be used. There are some English officials on this forum who know a lot more than me about this, however. (Sorry to temporarily hijack your thread Adham. :oops: :oops: )

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PostPosted: 08 Jun 2009, 13:52 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
The way I understand it, any legal rubber without any physical, chemical or other treatment can be used. There are some English officials on this forum who know a lot more than me about this, however. (Sorry to temporarily hijack your thread Adham. :oops: :oops: )


Then the question is, what is "legal rubber" according to ETTA, if not "authorised by ITTF". I mean, if that criteria is no longer valid.


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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009, 03:15 
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Let me clarify. Unfortunately many above explanations are not correct, and many assumptions, are just that: assumptions.

As I said many times, there is a difference between "Authorized" and "Approved". I will not explain this again here, but I would like to clarify the modification to the rule with the following points:

1. Both Authorization and Approval of equipment are intended for ITTF events. National Association can decide to adopt the ITTF Authorization and Approval of equipment or do their own, or "add" their own.

2. The Technical Leaflet is a detailed explanation of the rules, mainly for the use of Manufacturers for the production of the equipment, as well as a guide to the umpires and referees.

3. Regarding the minimum friction level, the Technical Leaflet (TL) specifies to the manufacturer the minimum level accepted for Pimples friction. The manufacturers produce the pimpled rubber according to that specification and obtain "authorization", which is the right to use the ITTF logo on their rubber.

4. The rule states that any rubber covering cannot be altered. Therefore, the rubber must be used as received from the factory, which is already (hopefully) according to the minimum friction limits as provided by the ITTF in the TL.

5. It is the responsibility of the ITTF's Board of Directors to approve or change or give authority to change the TLs.

So as you can see, minimum friction is still the rule.

Regarding the reason to remove the words "Authorized by the ITTF" in rule 2.4, is that if left in the Laws of TT, which are normally adopted as they are by the great majority of the ITTF members for all their events, then it would mean that the national associations would use the ITTF Laws and hence oblige the players to use Authorized racket coverings. By moving this specification (Authorized), it gives flexibility to the national associations to adopt the Laws of TT as they are, while allowing players at certain levels NOT to use the ITTF authorized racket coverings.

This is the best I can do to clarify. Try not to read any hidden conspiracy in this change, this is a change that was proposed by the Rules Committee and took just a few minutes to pass, as it seemed to make the rule clearer and give more flexibility to the national associations without forcing them to make a special rule overriding the Laws of TT.

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PostPosted: 09 Jun 2009, 21:03 
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could you kindly clarify the current status of the trial of ttmaster vs. ittf? has an agreement been reached, has a decision been made or will there be another hearing this month?

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2009, 02:38 
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AA wrote:
could you kindly clarify the current status of the trial of ttmaster vs. ittf? has an agreement been reached, has a decision been made or will there be another hearing this month?


TT-Master has withdrawn their complaint. The case is canceled.

The ITTF thanks TT-Master for their understanding and cooperation.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2009, 02:39 
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Wow! That's interesting. Will Insider or SBIF be reinstated? The rumor going around is Insider will be again homologated but Swing Back IF will not.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2009, 03:05 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Wow! That's interesting. Will Insider or SBIF be reinstated? The rumor going around is Insider will be again homologated but Swing Back IF will not.


Both have been voluntarily withdrawn by TT-Master in full cooperation with the ITTF.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2009, 03:14 
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Thank you for the update.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2009, 07:55 
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adham wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Wow! That's interesting. Will Insider or SBIF be reinstated? The rumor going around is Insider will be again homologated but Swing Back IF will not.


Both have been voluntarily withdrawn by TT-Master in full cooperation with the ITTF.


Adham, does "withdrawn by TT-Master in full cooperation with the ITTF" mean, there was an agreement between TT-Master and ITTF?

If yes, what did TT-Master get in exchange?


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2009, 08:40 
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Smartguy wrote:
adham wrote:
mynamenotbob wrote:
Wow! That's interesting. Will Insider or SBIF be reinstated? The rumor going around is Insider will be again homologated but Swing Back IF will not.


Both have been voluntarily withdrawn by TT-Master in full cooperation with the ITTF.


Adham, does "withdrawn by TT-Master in full cooperation with the ITTF" mean, there was an agreement between TT-Master and ITTF?

If yes, what did TT-Master get in exchange?


TT-Master decided not to pursue the matter any further. Therefore the ITTF fully agreed.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2009, 09:47 
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Adham, has TT-Master got any financial compensation from ITTF, in whatever form?

Or maybe certain promise form ITTF? E. g. that TT-Master may produce the banned rubbers under other name and they get authorisation?

Or both?


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2009, 11:11 
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ADMISSION OF FRICTIONLESS RUBBERS FOR COMPETITIVE PLAY.
  • Here, in Russia, it is solely the Refery-in-chief who is empowered to decide what rubber brand is and what is not admissible for this given event.
  • To my best knowledge, the FL rubbers wouid be well accepted for most domestic events here.
  • Still, you may scarcely use FL brands if an event would have been awarded an "international" status.


Last edited by igorponger on 10 Jun 2009, 13:11, edited 3 times in total.

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