OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Hurricane Long 5

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No more political prisoners in Catalonia.

If you're looking for a really light and offensive blade than any blade with a balsa core and medial plies would do the trick. There are countless variants to choose from.

The Donic Cayman for example is a 8.5mm balsa and koto blade, which weighs around 57 - 67 grams, depending on the density of balsa used.

The Dr Neubauer High Technology is another very light balsa/koto blade - and its huge! Over 163mm across the playing surface, 8mm thick balsa core, 2mm thick balsa medials and 0.5mm koto outers. It looks like a frying pan in some people's hands, but its still extremely light (circa 65 grams), has good touch, and is very, very quick... though at that thickness its not going to flex much at all.

Blades with synthetic composites tend to be much heavier, at around the 85 to 95 gram mark, and are far less inclined to flex in my opinion.

Blades do flex by the way... they just don't flex very much (simply because they don't need to). The flexibility of a blade contributes more to the throw angle than any other factor IMO - it's not an accident flexy blades tend to have slightly higher throw angles on the whole (which is partially why they team with chinese rubbers so well. Chinese rubbers tend to be harder with a flatter arc during play - a flexy blade lifts their low throw angle a little bit, ideally just enough to help get the ball across the net.)

A harder stiff blade however will have a naturally lower throw angle... a low throw chinese rubber plus a low throw hard stiff blade can equal a lot of balls going into the net until you learn to adjust your stroke, timing and open up the face of your blade more.

Hope this helps.

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Wakkibat: Custom Made TT Blades
Proudly made in Australia from local and imported timbers
http://www.wakkibat.com

Didnt try a H3 with thinner sponge, ordered a Nittaku H3 turbo blue 1.6mm. It's very heavy though but I will give it a try.
The Battle 2 1.5 mm was a bit to slow in 1.5 for the FH. The BH played OK.

Those extreme light blades combined with the heavy chinese rubbers will be very "head" heavy and don't play that good.

They can be yes, but it depends on the density of the balsa used in the blade, and the species and density of wood used in the handle.

Balancing a blade more towards the handle is also an extremely simple thing to do - you can do it yourself through a number of methods:

- Removing the handle's scales and use heavier wood is one way, though this can also potentially affect your blade's playing characteristics if you're not careful.

- Cutting a small section out of your handle scales, inserting heavier material then gluing another section of wood on top is another.

- I've heard of a few people adding several grams of heavy material underneath their handle strapping too.

You can also achieve the same effect temporarily by playing with fingerless gloves and taping some weight to the palm, or even just holding a few grams of something small and heavy in your hand while you play.

Point being: its far easier to make a light blade heavier and still maintain its playing feel, than vice versa.

If weight really matters to you that much, then seriously - it's really hard to go past a balsa blade. No other TT wood species can give you the same weight savings that balsa can. What trips people up is the enormous density range of balsa, and the way the timber industry classifies it.

Most timber merchants will tell you light balsa is about 120-150kg per cubic meter in density... but this is actually mid-density/mid-weight for TT purposes. Balsa can go as light as 60kg per m3, or as heavy as 250-300kg per m3... That's a 5-fold increase in density from minimum to maximum - all from one single species of wood.

The really light balsa sometimes makes its way into blades by the larger manufacturers by accident, which is why balsa blades can vary in weight and bounce so much. I have an old Donic Cayman on my desk right now for example that weights all of 47 grams (!) Granted its broken with some outer ply missing, but even when brand new and in its prime, the entire blade would not have weighed more than 51-54 grams tops.

As I tell my customers, buying a blade made by a large factory can be a real crapshoot in terms of weight, as that they don't weigh each piece of wood in a blade individually to match a given weight or density target, while a small blade makers can do this, and often does so when building a blade.

I would recommend you find yourself a small artisan TT bladesmith and ask them what can they do to help you. You'll get a better quality blade for your money and it should come out exactly the way you want it. You're also welcome to PM me directly if you have further questions.

Hope this helps.

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Wakkibat: Custom Made TT Blades
Proudly made in Australia from local and imported timbers
http://www.wakkibat.com

I’ve seen H3 / Skyline TG3 / Battle 2 used effectively for a spin based / retriever type game on Donic Balsa Carbo Fleece. I looked it up and it’s OFF+ | 70-75g.

There’s a new faster one Balsa Carbo Certran Fibre. Same weight range 70-75g.

With the speed it probably won’t be very flexible. I haven’t tried myself, it seemed the thinking behind this setup was tacky rubber for easy spin generation in early phase and the extreme pace of the blade to get the ball over from distance once pushed back. Nasty kicking lobs, very frustrating unless you have patience to wait for the right ball to finish.

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ZFT

I love lightweight slow Balsa blades with loads of control but with speed when you want to really despatch the ball. So imagine my surprise when trying a practising partners TSP Trinity Carbon blade with the following description:
The Trinity Carbon Offensive + is a fantastic, 7-ply offensive blade . By using very high quality material, TSP ensures to get a unique feeling. The Carbon provides very good speed; the Balsa core supplies the necessary feeling. The blade, which was reported weighing approx. 85g instead this one weighed 65g & it really suited my style giving me the control I desire with the carbon fibre giving it plenty of punch when required. Light blades give great control with LPs on my BH & helps wrist & shoulder health

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Setup 1: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS acid green OX BH
Setup 2: Setup 2: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango PS black 2.00mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS red OX BH
Setup 3: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Gigant anti-spin red BH
See the ball, be the ball...

Yeah, at 65 grams plus carbon & resin, that's a pretty light blade.

Interesting to note the declared factory weight is circa 85 grams - that's actually about right for a carbon fiber blade (in my personal experience at least).

For your balsa blade to be so much lighter than the factory-listed weight (over 23% lighter to be exact) I'm guessing they used a far lower density balsa in at least two of the blade's various plies.

Granted those weight savings could easily have come from somewhere else, but I personally doubt they would have come from the composite layers of carbon & resin. Certainly you can get lighter weaves of carbon fibre and lighter resins, but as these are all fully synthetic materials, the weight of carbon fibre and epoxy resin combined tends to be far more stable, reliable, and predictable in general when compared to the weight of the timber.

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Wakkibat: Custom Made TT Blades
Proudly made in Australia from local and imported timbers
http://www.wakkibat.com

I have 4 of these blades which I purchased from the Ooak TT shop they range from 65gms to 75gms apparently this batch were a lot lighter than the 85gms. This gives me with my setups great control with good power when needed. I have been using them for 4 years with great results

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Setup 1: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS acid green OX BH
Setup 2: Setup 2: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango PS black 2.00mm FH & Tibhar Grass D.TecS red OX BH
Setup 3: Blade: TSP Trinity Carbon | Joola Golden Tango black 1.8mm FH & Spinlord Gigant anti-spin red BH
See the ball, be the ball...

Thank you for answer!
I am gonna find myself a small artisan TT bladesmith but I think I allready found one.....

PM you next week.

Kind Regards

I tried the Battle 2 prov(FH) on the Nittaku septear lead(73g) last monday and it worked out quit well btw. Near table it plays like a dream (Block, push, loop and opening) and it took me less effort to counterspin further away from the table than with the hurricane 3 prov. It's quite fast and mega controlled. Will play with it again tonight to confirm this.

Yep! the stock standard Battle II in max sponge is a really great rubber IMO, though I'm a little curious to see how the provincial version differs, if at all.

I like to use the Battle II MAX on one of my own balsa blades (both FH and BH) and while I'm far from impartial, it does play pretty good if I say so myself (though mixing a chinese-style tacky rubber with a non-tacky euro-style rubber on the same blade allows me to twiddle my bat during play and confound any non-observant opponents our there with the subsequent variation in spin )

I admit I've never played with that Nittaku blade and frankly know nothing about it - I only know that the balsa effect is moderated in ways I personally really like when I team a balsa core blade with a Battle II in max sponge (though there are other ways to achieve this as well which have nothing to do with the rubber. )

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Wakkibat: Custom Made TT Blades
Proudly made in Australia from local and imported timbers
http://www.wakkibat.com

Yeah, I build competition model airplanes, and know a number of competition fliers - I've seen people bring scales to SIG MFG's balsa storage room in Montezuma and sit there and weigh sheets. We usually talk in terms of pounds per cubic foot - the light stuff is 5-7 lb/cu.ft., the mid-weight stuff is 8-12, I think it goes up to 20-24. The very light stuff is QUITE rare, a lot of it is punky and not strong enough to use except as blocks. People will pay ultra-premium prices for it, particularly people who fly Indoor Rubber, especially for the ultra rare 4 lb. wood. Ironically, the really heavy wood is also extremely rare, and is sought after by the Science Olympiad competition model bridge builders.



Yes, indeed. Even the ultra-expensive mass produced blades from Butterfly or Nittaku can vary greatly in weight from example to example.

I used to make blades out of hobby store wood - balsa cores and birch ply faces. There was a guy in Detroit called Bob Brickell who was doing this back in the 1980s - his blades had the big SIG logo off to the corner because he really did get his wood at the hobby store. Mine looked crude - the handles were scrap blocks of balsa which I carved with a knife. The problem was that it was possible to end up with rocket blades - those things were faster than any carbon blade ever was. 1/4" balsa core with 1/32" three ply birch faces made for a rocket. Reducing the core to 3/16" made for a more manageable blade, and using 1/64" three ply birch faces tamed it right down. Also made it a little fragile, though.

By the way, kiri/paulownia is sort of like medium-heavy balsa. Looks like it, behaves like it. Daiso sells sheets as thin as 6mm. I've been using it in models.

Iskandar

Hi Iskandar

RE: using 3-Ply (3P) Birch as an outer ply - HA! Great minds think alike... I've did the exact same with my very first blade!

I'd been both a hobbyist woodworker and TT player literally for decades before it occurred to me to try building a blade (why I waited so long I'll never know)

It was a three-ply knockabout special: 8mm mid-density balsa core with 0.6mm outers cut from some scrap laser ply I had lying about from an earlier project. (ie: 0.6mm is a fraction under 1/32") That blade was a rocket too - I bloody loved it... Still have it safe at home and still take it out and use it on occasion.

I'm amazed that more bladesmiths don't use 3P Birch as an outer ply more often. In terms of its density, stability, consistency, torsional stiffness, availability, sustainability and cost, as an outer-ply it's just ticks every box - such a fantastic product. (I'm guessing this is a brand-image thing for the major brands - they don't want their products associated with a commonly-available craft material like laser ply - no matter how superior it may be in certain situations. It cheapens their brand equity and breaks down the slightly fallacious "high-tech" positioning they've all been building up over decades now. Personally however I don't give a proverbial about image - I just want to make a great blade.)

And yeah I agree re: the speed thing - 3P Birch lets you dial in your desired speed to a surprising degree speed simply through increasing its thickness. It's also possible to do the same thing with a regular timber veneer of course, but I've yet to meet the timber merchant willing to stock multiple thicknesses of ANY veneer species. You can only circumvent this problem once you can access (or else invest in) a really good precision bandsaw and start making your own veneers... but until then, 3P birch is an excellent alternative (I still choose to use it on some of my own designs simply because I have yet to find anything better that's consistently available all year round at the right price point).

1/64 is about 0.3mm (give or take). Finnish 3P birch is the only one I know of that comes in that particular gauge, so I think I know the product you're speaking of. At that thickness, I'm not surprised your torsional stiffness came down along with playing speed.

If ever you make another balsa core blade with those 0.3mm outers, I recommend you try attaching your outers with a Urea Formaldehyde resin as opposed to the usual suspects of PU, hide glue or PVA. It will help provide some of the additional stiffness and rigidity you're missing, and *shouldn't* (in theory) increase speed or weight too much, so long as you don't use too much of it.

There will still be a speed boost of course as dried UF Resin is hard as a rock, but you can still dial that speed gain back again by using a slightly thinner core (or else make it a 5-ply and add some thin balsa medials to the mix. )

I know Kiri / Paulownia very well, and enjoy working with it It's not as cheap as balsa is down here (ie: down under) but its still a great TT wood and I've made a few blades with it that I like... it's such lovely stuff to work with.

If ever you get the chance, also check out Jelutong - another great hobby / TT timber from Indonesia / Malaysia (details here: https://www.wood-database.com/jelutong/). It's heavier than balsa and kiri (bit heavier than Ayous too) so with TT blades you need to watch ply thicknesses like a hawk to avoid a weight blow-out. The dust is also a very effective sensitiser, so long sleeves and gloves are the order of the day when sanding it. But its worth risking the occasional bout of contact dermatitis due to its utterly gorgeous consistency, bounce and feedback.

The larger makers avoid Jelutong due to the irritating qualities of the dust, and its comparative scarcity, increased weight and higher cost when compared to something like Ayous... but if ever you have the means to acquire some and experiment, it can provide you a very pleasing blade indeed. (PS: If you have a lot of skin allergies or break out in hives around latex though, I strongly recommend you either avoid it completely, or else seal the handle. Jelutong is a very latex-rich species - the latex canals in the stuff are just massive).

_________________
Wakkibat: Custom Made TT Blades
Proudly made in Australia from local and imported timbers
http://www.wakkibat.com

When I was making blades I was in grad school in the US, and I've since moved home to Malaysia. I was looking at using Jelutong for use as model airplane spar material, it's well known, and is especially used for picture frames and for carving. It's a quick growing species - it's among the first species to colonize cleared land, but it's a lot rarer than it should be, and is fairly expensive. Incidentally, as far as tropical woods go - the Yinhe N11 uses Meranti outer plies. Nice light blade, if a little fast.

In the US birch pine ply (from 1/64", actually marked 0.4mm, on up) was readily available from hobby stores, or if you bought your balsa wood mail order those outlets sold it too. In Australia, there's a similar thin plywood made from "hoop pine" - I remember a company was trying to import it into the States and was giving away samples (I have about a square foot of it, 1.5mm thick). There's a company in Australia selling balsa that they grow in Papua New Guinea - I forget the name of the company, but I was considering buying balsa from them a while back - they had the hoop pine plywood. I think the thinnest was 0.6mm.

When I started making blades I used aliphatic cement (yellow woodworking glue - Titebond and the like), which is PVA with fillers. And then I started playing with fiberglass and carbon or kevlar veil (it's like a tissue) under the plywood. And then I found a source of end-cut balsa (like what you find in the TSP balsa blades) and had to switch to thin, slow-setting epoxy (again, available from hobby suppliers). With all of these glues you have to have some sort of clamping set-up to apply pressure to the sandwich as the glue cures.

Maybe someday I'll try making more blades. I went for about 10 years without playing, and when I started playing again I discovered Chinese equipment from AliExpress, and buying all sorts of stuff just to find out what it was like. In the last 2-3 years I've gone into a different mode - I don't experiment with equipment any more, I just try to play better with what I've settled on, which means those Sanwei M8 blades and whatever rubber I pull out of my stockpile (it's still way too much for any sane person to have accumulated in 3 years.. thank goodness there really isn't much difference between rubber sheets, though the same can't be said for blades).

Iskandar