OOAK Table Tennis Forum

It's in the list under "Double Power": http://www.ittf.com/_front_page/ittf1.a ... ory=rubber

Well, whaddya know..

Incidentally, if you go to WinMaxSport.com.cn you'll come across another type of rubber - this one's called "Six Star Rubber". It does seem to have the same topsheet - I'll bet it's got the 40-42 sponge. And I'll betcha it's all 999T under the skin.

I wonder if that Timo Boll Warheads "Made In Germany" "Tensor" rubber I posted about earlier is listed under some other name, too, I kinda doubt it. I got it from this shop on AliExpress:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/T ... 56037.html

He's got all sorts of questionable stuff - Tenergy 05 for $15, for instance. He's got this other "Timo Boll" (you wonder if Herr Boll knows about this...) rubber called "Bogen":

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 88216.html

This one's a little too expensive to order just for the sake of curiosity. I messaged the guy and asked him about it not being on the ITTF list, he pretended not to understand the question, but immediately put the rubber on discount and is trying to get me to order some sheets! He's also got another weird brand, Bestray:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 06570.html

To be fair, I don't see a ITTF logo on this one at all, but one wonders if it's listed under something else too. At $36 a sheet I definitely will NOT order one of these (I can get three sheets of Training Whale or four sheets of Training Shark for the same money). And to be fair, the 868 and Corbor I got off him were excellent, at an really excellent price (way under $4 a sheet including shipping!). The Boll Warheads plays pretty well, too.

Iskandar

OK, this isn't really training rubber any more, and it's somewhat more expensive than the stuff I've been reviewing so far, but here goes. I decided to finally open a couple of packets of rubber I bought during that 15% sale some months back:

Yasaka ZAP "40mm" 36-38 degree sponge "Biotech"






Sort of a yellowish-tan sponge. I have it on the same blade (Yinhe N11) as a sheet of the "generic" Palio Emperor Dragon (see previous posts). Much less tacky than the Dragon, and as expected, a little slower. Loops feel somewhat more comfortable with it than with the Dragon. The Dragon hits better. One big problem with this sheet - it had a HUGE negative dome (or dish). I.e. it was concave sponge side up. When photographing it on the scanner the plastic covering on the topsheet wrinkled (visible in the photo above). The first time I mounted it on a blade I ended up with a crease in the topsheet,which meant I had to remove it and re-mount.

red 58.3g 166x169mm 0.208 g/cm2 41.43g mounted 199.36 sq. in.

Next up is its Palio stablemate - CJ8000 with the same hardness sponge.

Iskandar

The 729 training rubber I bought had minor defects, dents in the top sheet.

tOD

Seamooning Palio rubbers.

I must admit, the sheet I like the most so far is the Emperor Dragon I got in the generic packaging, which I got from this guy:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shi ... 68860.html

It was $6 a sheet when I got it, it's more like $9 a sheet now. If Haifu Training Whale and Training Shark dissapoint me I'll stay with the Training Dragon. I'd avoided trying to boost it until now, since it feels so good to play with, but I did want to see what it was like Seamooned. So I applied 3 coats over 2 days, waited several more for the dome to develop and subside before I put it on. GEEE.. It was great before, but it's incredible now. Great for looping, but especially great for those topspin drives off backspin. These have to be hit with some power with an almost vertical blade, but now I find that I have a lot more safety margin. Loops against backspin are also easier.

Before Seamoon:



After Seamoon:



The rubber on the left is Emperor Dragon, the one on the right is Yasaka ZAP 36-38 (the rubber mentioned in the previous post). Note that the Dragon lays flat in the beginning and the ZAP has a big dish. A couple days later Dragon has a big dome and ZAP a lesser one (probably because it started out dished). Note also Dragon does not have degree markings, ZAP does. ZAP is supposedly made by Palio - the resemblance here gives it away (you wonder what those numbers mean).

I have a sheet of Palio CJ8000 Two Side Loop with 36-38 sponge, but the sponge there is mauve. I'll post something about it next, it's on my 729 C3 blade which feels a little too heavy at this point in time.

Iskandar

Interesting reading, looking forward to CJ8000

_________________
Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

Hmmm.. what to make of this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4x-Yasaka-New-E ... 4ac81b7c44



Yasaka New Era training rubber in plain transparent sealed plastic packs (like the Haifu training rubber). Who are these for? They don't seem to fit the "cheap schoolkid training rubber" profile, like the 729 Batwings or 868 twinpacks, nor are they something elite players would use, like Whale/Shark. Or maybe there are clubs/provincial teams that use it as a backhand rubber?

Iskandar

Some photos:






ZAP Spin 33-35 mauve Biotech Japanese sponge

black 57.12g 166x166mm 0.207g/cm2 Cut weight 41.23g Cut area 198.903cm2

Surprise! The sponge is made in Japan!! (Actually - just noticed the Hinomaru on the back of the packet..) It is relatively expensive (around $13.50 including shipping). This is the softest sponge I've come across in a Chinese rubber as yet. The reason I got this sheet was that thread about "Cheap looping combos" in the Rec and Experimental section where it was mentioned that 1) good looping blades were soft and flexible, 2) that the Yinhe W-6 was a "flexible" blade and 3) hard rubber felt "weird" on a soft flexy blade. So my W-6 showed up and I got out this sheet to put on it. Like other Palio/Yasaka Chinese rubber, it comes in a vacuum pack (see photos). It's relatively light in weight.

One problem showed up right away. The other sheet of ZAP I opened, as well as the sheet of CJ8000, had a case of the dishing. But nothing compared to this. The amount of dish on this rubber is phenomenal - it curls in on itself. Putting it on the blade evenly was very, very tricky, though I managed it after 2 attempts. (After each attempt, you have to remove the bits of glue off the blade - most of it comes off with the rubber - and apply another coat and wait for it to dry.. Ugh.)




I put a sheet of Training Shark on the other side of the blade, that comes next. Played some with this blade - the ZAP loops nice, though a little slow. The main difference between this blade and the N-11 (which I've been playing with mostly) is that there's more of a buzz when you hit the ball. Can't say it's any better for looping than the N-11, though, but remember I'm not a high level player. The Shark is better as a forehand rubber, this one plays pretty well on the backhand - lots of control, blocks and counters very nicely, though a little slower than the 36-38 degree ZAP I tried earlier (that one's still on the N-11 on the backhand). Not sure what people mean by the blade flexing - it's plenty stiff when I try to bend it (it's 5.5mm thick).

I've pulled the ZAP off the W-6 for seamooning - at the very least, it should reduce the dish and make it easier to glue properly.

The ZAP/whale combo IS lighter than ZAP/Generic dragon - the N-11 blade is lighter than the W-6 (80 vs. 84g) but the assembled rackets weigh 174.57 vs. 170.84.

Iskandar

One coat of Seamoon and 24 hours and the dish is almost gone (pic).

Another coat and another 24 hours and it's flat! Just glued it onto the W6. Now it goes on easy as pie.

Iskandar

Finally got around to giving the Training Shark a try. It's pretty confusing - there's plain old Shark, then there's Shark I and Shark II. They all use the same topsheet. How to tell the difference? It's written on the back of the sponge. They also sell tuned and non-tuned versions - again, they all come in a vacuum pack, so I wondered how you tell them apart. Easy, it turns out - the tuned versions have a layer of glue on the back, and a sheet of thick, stiff plastic attached to the glue. The plastic's thick and stiff enough to use as a protector sheet, and has instructions written on it.

Here's some examples:



From top to bottom: Whale I (tuned), Shark I (red, tuned), Whale II (untuned), Shark I (black, tuned), Unspecified Shark (black, untuned). The Shark sponge comes in three colors - a dark, orangey yellow for the black sheets, a light pastel yellow for the red sheets, and an orange sponge for the "unpecified shark". The other strange thing - the characters before the "I" and "II" (which I thought read "Whale" and "Shark") are actually the same. Since I'm Chinese-illiterate, perhaps someone here might be able to tell me what they actually say.

And what are those numbers? Turns out they're serial numbers. Each sheet has a unique one!



All the Haifu sheets I have have two corners cut off. Somewhat annoying because you have to measure these to do the calculations for areal density. The sheet I opened was a tuned Shark I:




I've seen it said that all of these training sheets have blems somewhere on the sheet. In the case of this one, there was some bad alignment of the topsheet and sponge along one of the sides, towards the top, so a row of pips didn't have sponge behind it (you can see it in the "sponge" photo, above). No problem, it cuts off anyway. Now having the rubber out in the open you do get the impression that QC (and general cosmetics) isn't a high priority (but then again, these ARE supposed to be "seconds").

NO degree markings (dissapointing). This rubber is probably made in a variety of sponge hardnesses, though I've not seen it offered as such (even in the "first quality" packaging). The "unspecified shark" has a "medium" character on the sponge, though.

Stats:

Haifu Training Shark I yellow sponge

black 61.93g 165x165mm (2 corners removed) 0.2326g/cm2 46.19g cut weight 198.59cm2 43.52g cut weight, 0.219g/cm2 (based on 200 sq. cm cut area)

How does it play? I'll reserve my comments for now, since I've only hit with it briefly. So far I'll just have to say it's a little slower than Seamooned Palio Generic Dragon. It's on a different blade, of course (W-6) - the Palio is on a N-11. Nothing earth shaking.

In a couple weeks I'll try Whale. Should I put it on the W-6 blade, though? Or should it go on something stiffer?

Iskandar

Just re-read this post. I didn't know back then that Donic Traction is supposedly rebadged Shark, just as Grips-S is supposedly relabeled Whale.

Hit some with the W-6 blade this afternoon, it's got the tuned Training Shark I on one side and Yasaka ZAP Spin (33-35 degrees Japanese sponge) on the other. I Seamooned the ZAP over the weekend. My impressions (switching back and forth between the W-6 and my regular N-11 with the Seamooned Palio Emperor Dragon on the forehand) is that the Shark and the ZAP Spin are way slower. I can get incredible spin on loops against backspin - the shots, if I swing hard enough, hit close to the net on the other side. I can loop OK with them. BUT flat hits and counterdrives are worse - in fact, flat hits tended to go long, pushes and blocks tended to go into the net. For once, there's a dramatic difference between two different sets of equipment - in the past I had a tough time telling one sheet of rubber from another (since the cheap "training rubber" is all very much alike). I'm sure, if I play more with the W-6 I'll eventually start making the shots, but the N-11 feels so good at the moment. I'll probably pull the Shark off the W-6 soon and try a sheet of Whale (I have some of the legendary Black Sponge on the way). And I might also replace the very soft ZAP with the sheet of CJ8000 I've got on my 729 A-3.

Iskandar

Opened up a sheet of red tuned Training Whale I, and applied it to the W-6 blade. I'll hit with it a little tomorrow, I hope.

Haifu Training Whale I dark orange sponge tuned

red 78.02g 164x164g (corners removed) 0.2929 g/cm2 59.29g cut weight 202.4 sq. cm

Good grief, is this heavy. 59 vs. 43g cut weight for the shark - that's an added 16g to the racket weight!!! Some of that is surely the weight of the tuning adhesive. Wonder if Hurricane is anything like this weight wise. I was expecting super-tacky on the topsheet, it's not. It won't pick up the ball.

Iskandar

What i find somewhat surprising is that almost all of these training rubers are 2,2 mm.

_________________
Blade: BTY Primorac Off-
FH: Donic Bluefire (2.0)
BH: Joola Explode (max thick)

Surprised me very much also. My thinking is that this is the new, 40mm ball-driven reality. Even beginners (who are being taught to counter-drive) will start with 2.2mm sponge. According to many posters here, it actually makes it easier to land the shot, since you get more spin. Same when learning to loop. And apparently there is still have enough control for beginners to control pushes. With the 38mm ball, things were different - even most top players wouldn't use 2.2/max sponge, but would use 2.0. And beginners would be made to use 1.5mm.

Iskandar

Another type of (self-proclaimed) training rubber (in this case, cheap beginner rubber) from Yinhe (Galaxy, Milkyway).




Somewhat unusual for this class of rubber is that it's vacuum packed (like T88). Also quite unusual is the soft sponge - 37 degrees. Most training rubber has 40-42 degree sponge. Price varies quite a bit, most places have it between $7 and $9 a sheet, but this place has it for $5.50 (including shipping):

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Guarante ... 32151.html

As usual, there's a gimmick - this one has "MOXA" (whatever that is..).

Haven't had it out of the packet yet, so no weights or playing info.

Iskandar