OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I need to buy new rubbers and I would like to know more about the Donic Acuda S3 and the Donic Baracuda Big Slam. They are advertised as slow in the category of tension rubbers, and good for spin and control.

The question is: how does their speed compare to the the speed of the classical rubbers like Sriver, Sriver FX, Mark V or Mark V GPS?

I don't want to buy something that is significantly faster than Mark V!

Thanks for any info!

Do you fear speed or a loss in control?

I guess both rubbers are too soft for you, you should instead look for Acuda S2 and standard Barracuda.

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Red is blogging here >> http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=30522

I fear the loss of control.
I also feel like I don't need more speed now, I am very satisfied with the speed of Mark V.
Now I am most of all working on improving the precision and the gesture of my strokes.
If I end up buying a new Mark V instead, I think I will buy it 2.0mm thick.


Actually I was looking at these rubbers precisely because somebody suggested me that I could try something softer. I am also considering Mark V GPS.

Do you think the Donic rubbers I said are extremely soft w.r.t. Mark V? Which kind of problem could this give?

I don't know how much you're relying on the feel of MarkV but the GPS feels different, same top-sheet with significantly softer sponge rendered it into something very different. It may have been nice (but still different to Mark V) with speed-glueing but these days are over for good.
I would describe the feel of such a rubber as fluffy and strokes became fuzzy - so I've got less instead of more precision.

The new rubbers were improved somewhat so a new Barracuda - even if they state it to be faster and spinnier - may give you more control and confidence. There are some nice alternatives out there by Xiom, Gewo, Andro etc., it's too much to mention them all. I personally went alternatively with CJ8000 due to the price and similarities with MarkV but I wouldn't recommend it because I can't say it has more or even the same level of control - but it may suit you as well. I've had some months the time dealing with it and I was confident I am able to do it. You may give it a try on your stronger side, the risk is quite low at $6-$10 per rubber depending on the version, but it's a tad more in weight on your racket as well.

May I ask how your loss in control compared to let's say last season looks like?

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Red is blogging here >> http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=30522

Thanks for the feedback Red, this is very useful!


I didn't say I lost in control, maybe I never had it! I probably just have to work more on it.

Before using my current bat, I had another one with slower blade and rubbers. With it I had a satisfying control, but I was too slow against the slow balls. Then I passed to the material I have now. I switched to a faster blade and faster rubbers at the same time (maybe I didn't have to change both together). Now I like the speed of my loops, but I lost consistency. I managed to adapt on the BH, but on the FH I am still not confident. I have to work more on it.

Now my rubbers are getting old, I need to buy new ones, for use on the same blade. I am thinking that it was a mistake to put Mark V max, so if I buy a new Mark V I will use the 2.0mm.

But, since I have to change anyway, I am looking around if there are some alternatives. Because of what I said, I am looking for something not faster than Mark V. All the "modern" rubbers seems to be faster, except maybe some that are very soft.

The two I am asking about here, promise to be not very fast, and to give a very good spin, that's why I find them interesting. But I first would like to understand how fast they are (in comparison with rubbers I tried, like Sriver, Sriver FX, Mark V or Mark V GPS).

But now, new problem! Red warns me that too soft can also compromise control.

I tried to do some research, but it is hard to find good information about hardness of rubbers. Anyway this very interesting page has some data. From this I see that Sriver and Mark V have more or less the same hardness, slightly softer are Sriver FX, Acuda S2 and Barracuda (their hardness is similar), while Acuda S3 and Barracuda Big Slam are even softer (and similar to each other and to Tenergy FX). I don't know where is Mark V GPS.

I already tried Sriver FX, I know that that level of hardness works well for me. But I am still worried that Acuda S2 and Barracuda may be too fast.

I also don't know very much about the alternatives from Xiom, Gewo, Andro and Palio that Red was suggesting.

It seems that you're not bound to the feel and edging for spin with a Mark V which is good concerning possible alternatives. You still shouldn't aim at too soft on both sides since your blade isn't very stiff nor hard.
You may try a softer rubbber like SriverFX or even the Big Slam in 1.7-1.9mm or similar on your weaker (backhand?) side and something similar to Mark V in hardness on your stronger side. The idea to go with 2.0mm instead of max is good, what about Donic Coppa?

Palio CJ8000 is a Chinese rubber which has a lot elasticity and allows it to be used similar to Mark V if it isn't too soft, 40° China GP sponge or harder is what I'd recommend - but that's only available in max thickness. My softer 36-38° version was available in 1.5mm and 2.00mm too (biotech also has 1.8mm) and my blade is quite stiff so that worked well. It's part of my trial to show that you can be competitive with quite a cheap setup for under $50 - actual value of my current setup is $35 so there's quite some room for more sophisticated rubbers without exceeding the $50-barrier.
If you're interested to read my blog, see below.

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Red is blogging here >> http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=30522

My advice would be - just go buy a sheet of Barracuda or S2 and try it out. That's really the only way you're going to get answers to the questions you have. If you don't like them after playing for a couple weeks, try something else, pass them on to someone else. Sure, they cost some money but it's not exactly a fortune. My guess is you'll like them, at least as well as you'd like anything else you're likely to try.. Don't rely on numbers, especially those on crowd-sourced sites like tabletennisdb - unless there are lots of reviewers (e.g. for Tenergy 05) the numbers will be based on a very few opinions (maybe as few as 2 or 3 people). Even worse, unless you're comparing within one brand, are numbers given by manufacturers - they never use the same scale from one manufacturer to the next.

As for CJ8000, I don't recommend it, not because it doesn't play well, but because it comes with a bunch of "dish" - it curls towards the sponge. Getting it properly on the blade is a major pain, requiring the use of "P.O." and other such stuff... If you want to try Chinese rubbers there are lots and lots of them, some cost as little as $5 a sheet (including shipping) and most play more or less the same. Try Yinhe Mercury II, for instance.

Iskandar

LKT Pro-XP may also be worth a consideration as beeing a soft rubber - and light. Together with some salt used, the reviews here seem to match: http://www.tabletennisdb.com/rubber/lkt-pro-xp.html

Your stronger side may fit well with this one: http://www.tabletennisdb.com/rubber/729-cream-transcend.html

I had no dish-issues so far with CJ8000 out-of-the-package, by the way. 3 in use, 2 in reserve. But I can't recommend the biotech-versions, I got 2 very different ones and the better one got a bubble in the top-sheet after less than 2 months.

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Red is blogging here >> http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=30522

CJ8000 fine for me also. Agree with the LKT pro XP. Galaxy Mars II is another decent option. I u used the Mars on an Appelgren and was impressed.

Sent from my SM-T210 using Tapatalk

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm ,BH Victas Triple Regular 2.0mm

Thank you all for the suggestions! I don't know most of the rubbers you mentioned, probably because they are mainly Chinese rubbers, I don't know very much about them. I will check them. Until now I've only used Japanese rubbers.


Now I see why you are so skeptical, it is my blade! Actually I have chosen the Spirit exactly because I like the soft feeling. So I have to be careful to balance the softness of the blade with the one of the rubber, good advise. Now that I think about it, when I tried Sriver FX I was using a stiffer blade, later I switched to the current blade and I put harder rubber.


I guess this one has similar characteristics as Mark V, isn't it? At least there is no tension there. I'll consider it.


I see your point, you mean that material is not so important, just get something reasonable and play!
If I follow this I will just get a new piece of Mark V and don't think any more. It's a serious possibility!



Yes, exactly, I have seen the numbers on tabletennisdb, megaspin and the manifacturers websites, but I don't know if I can believe them. That's why I opened this post, I hoped to find the opinion of somebody who actually used the Acuda S3 or the Baracuda Big Slam.

Hi again!

I think I have found an answer to the initial question at the start of this thread, so I wanted to share it with you.

I think the answer is that the Acuda S3 and the Baracuda Big Slam are faster than Mark V and Sriver. So the Acuda S2 and the Baracuda are even faster, and probably too fast for me.

The way I arrived at this conclusion is the following. Red suggested me to try the Donic Coppa, so I did some research about this rubber. This is a quite popular rubber, many people know it, so it is easy to find many opinions. The common opinion is that the Coppa is about the same speed as Mark V and Sriver, and it is probably a bit spinnier. This makes it very attractive for me.

It is easier to compare the Coppa to the Acuda S3 and the Baracuda Big Slam, because they are from the same manifacturer, so I can see the official informations, and it is also easier to find opinions in forums comparing them. They all say that the Acuda S3 and the Baracuda Big Slam are faster than the Coppa, so also faster than Mark V and Sriver.

To tell the truth - I think you'd probably find Acuda and Barracuda perfectly usable - the differences between inverted rubber sheets aren't nearly as great as the advertising would have you believe. When I tried my first Tensor (Palio Macro Pro) I was expecting great things - there were people claiming double the spin, super fast loops, etc. The result? Nothing so earth-shattering. I couldn't even tell the difference between it and what I had on the other side unless I thought hard about it. I tried again, this time I REALLY went for the hype, tried Andro Rasant. Same result. Rasant Turbo? That's supposed to be truly a monster rubber, right? It'd be so hard to play with because it was duper super fast. Nope - it WAS faster than the Rasant, but perfectly controllable. Have I ever found something too fast? Yes - 729FX with the big pore sponge. Drives and loops were no problem, but I was popping up pushes and pushing long. Even here it wasn't obvious right away, I only came to the conclusion after a couple weeks of play. Don't get me wrong, there are differences between rubbers but they tend to be more alike than not. Blades make a much bigger difference - differences between blades are much greater than differences between rubbers.

I'm not telling you to buy Acuda or Barracuda, of course - I don't think you would have trouble using either but they won't necessarily make you play any better. If I were in your situation I'd buy one just out of sheer curiosity.

Iskandar

There is a big different between Chinese rubbers and Tensors though. It does depend on how you strike the ball, but Tensors leave virtually all Chinese rubbers for dead when it comes to generating speed & spin with little effort on loops. Yes some tuned Chinese rubbers might come near it, but the feeling is just so different.

To answer the OPs question, yes the acuda/baracuda will feel faster than traditional rubbers like MArk V, but for loops they're often easier to land, because the extra spin you generate gives most a tighter arc, so the ball drops more easily. Where you might suffer is in the short game, where these rubbers make it harder to keep the ball low and short.

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Yes, good points all around!

I remember when swapping back to one of the slower/dead tacky rubbers after having been using tenergies and whatever else major marketing push was going on...

All of a sudden, with no practice at all, my pushes were becoming lethal! Bouncing 2 or 3 times on the other side of the table, often getting points outright because the short distance was so unexpected. On the converse -- many of my loops and attacks found their way into the net! Dropping short again, but not in a desirable way!

So I think haggis has given the benefits/cons of each pretty nicely.

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SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

Oh, sure, when changing rubbers differences in speed will cause misses and balls into the net. I've had that happen when switching between, say, Emperor Dragon and 999T. But after you've adjusted to it there isn't all that much difference. You'll probably get a little more speed and spin with Tensors but not nearly as much as some people claim. Definitely not "twice the spin". Blades make a much bigger difference than rubbers do, I think.

Iskandar