OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Had a good session today with Shaun, Eric and Shane.

I started with my double inverted with Shaun but my backhand just hurts too much with it so I gave it in after about 10 minutes and then stuck with Versal LP and H3 "provincial".

I can get away with a lot less pain with the Versal. (possibly would be the same with my Sweden blade if it had LP on one side....)

Much of it is to do with the weight, some of it is to do with avoiding my backhand looping action repeatedly.

My backhand looping has been getting worse and worse as a result. Yet I still pull of some good shots... nowhere near my strongest and most consistant weapon anymore though...

I have been getting much better at blocking close at the table and fishing/mild chopping from the back of the court on both sides with the LP though.

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I took roughly 80% of the games against Shaun (main player of the day) , similar with Eric. Shane is out of form due to ring rust. He couldn't get a game and they were clean wins.

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My style has been unfolding.... Especially with service return I play best taking a big step back from the table to easily return fast long balls which cause me the greatest problems otherwise. This encourages my opponent to do super short serves which don't scare me and I can easily take quick steps in to return.

That is by far the biggest thing I notice that helps me win even with LP on any side. I experiment receiving once with LP on the FH and then on the BH... It's fun having the options and sometimes predicting which they will serve to... which I am better at.. more dangerous with or just more troubling with.

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The other thing I was thinking about was that LP allows a greater surface area on the blade to not miss the ball when returning an incoming loop. Because the bat is more vertical there is less chance of missing the ball. Receiving that shot with inverted rubber means you have to close the blade to counter the spin making it a smaller "window" and more chances of missing the ball.

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The thing I like a bit of a sponge and LP over either SP OX... is that if they hit a really hard shot the ball will dig in and there is less "reversal" or I prefer to call it "continuation" of the same rotation on the ball.... meaning a simple block of their topspin can almost start to return the ball as topspin ... making it easier to get onto the table. Without this it is very hard to stop it from just floating off the end of the table if I use something totally frictionless.

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All up I think I am due to injury in particular (not just for the fun of it) leaning back to the dark side again. I am wondering whether I should stick LP on the Yasaka Sweden too. And try the provincial on it too....

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How did you like the feel of PRW's balsa blades? Because, of course, paired with LP that's where you could shave off some serious weight.

The main thing I thought using them is how annoyingly thick they are. As for looping, they felt soft yet fast. Something that makes it dam hard to return PRW's loops are they almost always dip under my bat when I attempted to block them compared to most players shots.

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Shaun couldn't take a game off me while I used my versal LP set up today (more than 2 hours of games)... The only game he got was when I used double inverted... and then I beat him with it in the following game.

Yuki and the other fella are a bit lower so I won't say much but I could win there too.

In the third hour Simon turned up and I was pretty dam exhausted by then. (Simon is a stronger player than most around in playing circles I think he's 1400 or something like that)

I won the first 2 against him clean and easy with the LP then he won the next two roughly closish I think. LP isn't so easy when people are accuate with attacking first.
In the fifth I swapped to double inverted knowing full well I would play just as badly because I haven't been using it much and yes he won it... but to be honest I was still pretty much only defending the whole day. Rarely trying to attack...
We played one more game with the double inverted and I beat him in a close one.

He commented that I was cannon foder with the LP, and that I am much better with the double inverted but I don't think the results of our games showed that so much.

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So with lower level players it makes no difference but at the higher levels I got to be more active.

I also instantly miss the feeling, handle, thickness of my yasaka sweden blade. I never feel either rubber bottom out on it. I reckon I could get away with the 1.9 rozena on bh and possibly 1.9 on fh if it is a harder H3 (they dont make them... but maybe a similar rubber that does come in that thickness?)

I know 729 fx is pretty tacky (I hope.) and they come in thinner versions.

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Yes they're still one of the tackier ones (although not like they used to be 20+ years ago). You'd definitely want a black sheet if you want tacky.

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How long does the 729 black hold the ball upside down testing?

My current h3 prov supposedly... doesnt hold it at all. but there is a touch of tack
All my commercial h3 can hold the ball for seconds.

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Unfortunately it varies from sheet to sheet, It varies from sheet to sheet with Hurricanes as well, but as you've probably deduced already, tackiness H3>H3Neo>H3provincial. I get the most spin on my loops (slow spinny loops) when the sheet is only mildly tack. I definitely get less spin on loops for a very tacky sheet. Obviously that's related to how I brush the ball, which will be a little different for other people.

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Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

Hmmm I was hoping 729 was more consistant... Every sheet of H3 commercial has been tacky unless I fudge around with it too much...

As for creating spin that is as you side noted technique. I beleive there is a threshold of playability too... and then the sponge dwell etc... makes up a lot of it and finally the blade.

But tacky surface for me offers a greater potential for spin than non tacky given everything else the same.

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I'm gonna go on tangent a bit...

Can't remember where I recently read somebody was comparing some rubber or whateve and they were saying how they tell if a rubber is spinny or rate it by how they can loop under spin.

That to me is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard, because LP can loop underspin in that all it is doing is letting the ball continue to spin in the same direction...

For me the true test is how well you create spin from zero or even incoming topsin. And then how well you can serve intense spin short.

There are hundreds of rubbers that can create the same spin as H3 but a great deal of them can only do them with high speed.

The deadness of classic Chinese rubbers, the fact that they are so slow is what makes them ultimately for me unproportionally more spin to speed ratio....

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Another factor I consider is the bottom out factor. A rubber can be quite spinny when it is soft but if it bottoms out at the required angles that you have chosen to excell at your spin is useless because your banging into wood too soon....

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Anyhow rant over.

Today I played Shadi and lost about 3 games straight with my versal LP and then swapped over to my double inverted and he couldn't take a game off me in an hour... later we played again and we got more 5050 though... but overall I did better with inverted against someone at a high level.

With Ken I just beat him with inverted....

I played Dennis with the Versal and I was surprised I was often better than he was at his own game.... Dennis actually atm is using a versal Chinese grip blade... but the odd thing is he puts a various sponges and inverted rubbers on the opposite side of his LP that he never uses just to add weight to the blade... He is a purely LP who at his advanced age kills a great deal of the club...

I didn't want to play Jimmy but he begged me so much I gave him a couple of games and I just was not patient to play his game. He has a frustrating BH drive punch with the LP with sponge. To beat him I need to just play no spin till I have a line to kill... I was in no mood for that at the end...

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So yeah I think today I enjoyed my double inverted more again even if it hurts... The H3 commercial is mildly tacky pretty dead although it extremely stretched hard. Confidence felt a bit higher than usual in my bh with the Rozena like I felt it was quite a joy to feel it kick in with lots love sometimes... it isnt slow at all and not slow on this blade when driven right it does some power shots from a distance that I can't tell if I am using Tenergy 05 or MXP.

Yeah now my forearm is dead as F.

I can defend and play lightly with double inverted if I want or with the LP bat.... it's just that the double inverted tends to offer more choices of when I can go for it.

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The fact Hurricane sheets vary one by one and their sensitivity to high levels of humidity keeps me from trying them out. It is sad, as their price and spin might be very good, but these inconsistencies are not so symphatetic. But the hybrid rubbers tend not to have this problem as far as I played with them.

I've recently reverted back from defensive style to offensive again and feel much better. I went off with the Rakza Z and it plays so good, but have to get used to it (high throw angle and spin-sensitivity).

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"Spin is my only way, haven't got else to say. Have you checked your anti? Let it all for you untie!"

Blade: Dr. Neubauer Matador (flared handle, 7-ply, allwood, OFF-)
Forehand Rubber: Butterfly Dignics09C (2.1 mm, black, hybrid)
Backhand Rubber: Der Materialspezialist Scandal (1.2 mm, red, frictionless)
Playing Style: Modern Defender

I was tempted a while back to try this R7 but the price... I would try and possibly play it if it were near H3 prices.

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Tackiness has been consistant with commercial H3 for me over who nows how many I have bought 10+?. Humidity affects all rubbers. Yes a grazing style/depending on higher tack is affected more but H3 is not a purely rock hard sponge that won't allow for the sponge to compress and the topsheet to get greater surface area less than any other rubber regardless. It just won't spring out as quickly possibly as hybrid, spring sponge or whatever.

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BH rubbers for me atm need to be no tack, it's just the route I am going to get the ball back to the table further from the table with less effort.

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Will like to see your thoughts further down the line after you have played with that rubber more than a month. Thanks for sharing.

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I've got a sheet of the 999 coming which has been spoken about so widely as being very good in humidity, was only $7 on AliExpress. Gonna be a super hot summer in Brisbane, so hoping there's some truth to it!

P.S. I've got that same Rakza Z rubber Gregor mentioned, currently on my bat since July and like it a lot. Welcome to give that a spin (as well as me bringing you that sheet of G-1 to try!).

I am always happy to try rubbers without buying thanks Vinni.

There's some T888 I think on some training bat at the club I keep forgetting to grab and try to just for fun.. it felt quite tacky for an old bat sitting around.

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ONly used double inverted today...
I beat Shaun and Eric only by a smaller margin if I remember correctly today... I don't count games.

I also beat Simon 11:9 in the fifth. Again he said I am much more dangerous with double inverted...

beat a few other lower levels not worth noting more than that.

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I was air swinging a few fault bh pendulum serves more tha usual... I think its just getting used to one blade thickness/weight mostly...

NOt much else to report except that the heat was just getting to much for me... I didn't feel like playing the full 3 hours... Went home at about 11:30.

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Played 3 hours today

mostly Shaun who got a few games off me over the time.
Also beat Daniel (haven't seen him down for a while) and beat him with my LP versal every game... bout 5 I believe... He uses SP on one side and I think I out pipped him.

Yuki got one game off me when I was just giving clean simple start a rally serves and not using loop shots that hurt my arm. Usually he never gets a game offf me.. Once I put some more pain into the equation it was back to normal..

The most interesting thing today was toward the end just playing him. He pulled out some bats for me to have a go of with dignics 05/80

Dam I love these rubbers and the set on one of his thinner carbon blade were just a joy to loop with from a distance.

To the topic of defending that I repeatedly say.... I defend best with the most attacking styled equipment. I can stay far back from the table and only need short strokes / time to get to the ball to return it to the table... and occasionally send off a devestating spectacular shot from there.

Unlike my slow equipment where I have to work like a dog ....

Maybe the reason I am hurting so much is the use of the H3 on slow blades? Maybe at my age I have to just give in and play from further back with shorter strokes most the time? A bit more Samsanov style less whip more just smoothe flowing...

I can fish all day long with fast equipment. "Slow equipment might be what is killing me"

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When I play with "normal" blades, i.e. all wood or carbon, it is so much more effort to play for an extended period, compared to thick balsa. The balsa also doesn't send vibrations into my elbow. Much as I enjoy the control of the all wood (particularly), it encourages me to slap the ball as I get more tired, just to generate enough pace.