OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Your first opponent really seemed to struggle with your forehands - when you got them on. You can tell it's a faster rubber than your previous one; on some strokes closer to the table you were lifting where you would've been better off coming through the ball. That's one of the main problems with me using tensor rubbers as opposed to my H3 - I need to remember to play a more horizontal stroke.

You popped up a few of your first opponent's serves with your pimples. I've never seen that happen with a LP - is it because of the dampening sponge? Is it more spin-responsive?

One other thing, which I can't do but would like to be able to do, is when you were in push rallies with the first opponent you were primarily using the pimples and eventually one would pop up or have topspin on for your opponent to kill. Might it have been worth twiddling to give him a heavy backspin push which you can then kill off his MPs?

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I've been away on vacation...
Training tonight again

My main problem against the first opponent his the I loose my timing against his MP. It is also hard to tell what spin is on his returnts from that rubber. But also, I should be a lot better at flicking (I guess that is what you mean by comming through the ball). I should flip like Fabian Åkerström (watch his FH flicks, hard as smashes).
About the popups - he puts a lot of spin into his serves. A lp in ox might be able to eliminate popups but I still need to read spin with mine. It has nothing to do with the sponge I think.

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Yesterday I had a brief session with my regular training partner. He was not feeling all well from a cold so we focused on technique. For the first time in like two moths I focused on twiddeling. One drill was serving medium long with LP to his BH, letting him return to my BH. I twiddle and attack with inverted on BH. But that did not work well, I seem to have some problems performing consistent BH drives with my new rubber (Palio Thor's). I need to find the right angle, timing and hit. Need to work more on my offensive BH with inverted...

I have been very inspired from Shionos games last weekend in Japan Open. What a guy. So consistent chopping with both inverted and long pimple on both sides.

Therefore, we also tried two other drills, both filmed (se below). First was him looping on my back spin after him serving. He looped to my FH, I twiddled and chopped with LP on FH. He pushed back, I twiddeled and pushed with inverted on FH and so on. This was the first time ever I tried chopping with LP in a drill. Went ok for being the first time. I had a little problem with timing in the start, and I can chop much more aggressive if I like. My technique is a little stiff also . I just need to get used to perform this stroke... And have another look at my old thread on trying to learn to chop with FH: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=20479.
I think I will use this stroke mostly on short, spinny loops to my FH when it is difficult to use inverted. But against someone who likes looping much to my FH I will use it also at mid distance and long distance. Learning this storke and when to use it will fill a blank spot in my over all game plan. I relaly need a FH chop, and I have not been able to learn a consistent FH chop with inverted. So this, together with a few other improvements that I plan, will hopefully get me to the next level .


Last drill was about trying to get more consistent in BH blocking with inverted. I had a really good block and drive with my previous rubber (DHS Neo Skyline 3) but with the softer top sheet of Thor's it is much harder to keep the ball low. I need to shorten the dwell time, and be a little more aggressive with the inverted block (and drive). It is all about confidence and experience... I also tried blocking with my LP side. That was a very easy stroke with my TSP Culr P-4 and also with Dawei 388D Grass20 that I used before changing the top sheet from Dawei to D.TecS. Th elack of grip in D.TecS maskes this stroke much more bat-angle-sensitive. A little forward motion and a little top-spin-motion while blocking mkaes the return very slow and dead. A chop block returns lots of back spin but it is difficult to keep it short and low. I now realize I haven't tried sidesweep yet. Will do that next session. But my opponent got very confused each time I managed to keep the block on the table. It seems to be different spin every time... He also has problems with me returning his serves by pushing with D.TecS. Sometimes there is a little back spin, sometimes almost topspin .


I truly love this setup! It makes playing soo much fun . Can't wait til next session on Wednesday.

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
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How often do you think you will be able to twiddle to LP FH defending in a real match? I would rather try to improve FH chop with inverted rather than twiddling, cause this is a bit easier from a strategic point of view.

I hope as often as I would chop with inverted. It does not take long time to twiddle once it has become a reflex in your back bone. Look at Viktoria Pavlovich, she twiddles a lot, and so does Shiono and Filus (when chopping with FH). But to tell you the truth, I still don't think I will use it more than a couple of times in each match, since I don't get many short spinny loops there. But against some opponents it will be crucial. And I need to be able to perform a decent FH chop early in a match to stop opponents from thinking I have a weak spot there. It is also very important that I feel comfortable with LP on FH those times I twiddle at the "wrong" moments. Sometimes I think I will recieve a push to my BH and therefore twiddle, but instead I get a loop to my FH (not often, but sometimes).
Also, with a decent FH chop I can change my game plan in a match and play more like a classic defender. That can really annoy some opponents .

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
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I don't think that Shiono twidlles a lot for chopping, he was mostly chopping with inverted in my oppinion.

Anyway I agree on the "feeling good with LP on FH" statement, you always should have an answer with any of the rubbers on any side.

Look at this video (found on MNNBs blog):


Almost every time Shiono serves long backspin BH to opponents FH, and opponent loops back, he chops with pips on FH. He also does it at some other occasions. He also chops with inverted on BH sometimes, but I don't know if that is on purpose .

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Last night I played 8 or 9 ends against a regular practice opponent. He struggles to beat me (not great against backspin) and in the later games I found myself twiddling to try different shots.

I then wondered to myself, "is this a productive use of my practice time?".

IMO twiddling is quite an important part of being an LP defensive player, but a) I find I'm more effective when I don't twiddle, and concentrate on placing the ball well with the pimples when it comes to the short game; b) I'm then introducing shots which I haven't really practised (backhand loops and blocks, primarily) and c) which is often the worst thing, I sometimes find myself playing entirely the wrong shot because I've twiddled then forgotten (or haven't reacted quickly enough) to twiddle back.

Do you have practice sessions where you don't twiddle?

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I agree with you on "C". And even professionals like Shiono sometimes get caught with "wrong" side of the bat at the wrong moment, being forced to perform a BH chop with inverted or other. But the more I force myself to consider twiddle as an option, the more I will make those decisions without thinking. But if I don't force myself to twiddle at some specific occasions and when I am about to attack with BH I will most likely end up playing the whole match without twiddeling at all. You have to remember that I have not been twiddeling at all for offensive shots before this year (as described in my first post in this blog). And I also come from playing double inverted so I have a decent BH drive and block from start.

A normal session focused on drills (some are just focused on playing matches) I try to have at least one or two drills where I can impart twiddeling, but some sessions I don't practice that at all. I usually practice FH attacks (serve, attack, 5th ball attack) and recieving serve and then get ready for my opponents attack (chop), and he makes a drop shot, I approach the table and push or attack. I only practiced twiddeling that much in one session like last time because both me and my partner didn't have the energy for practicing attack and footwork .

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
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It has been days of training... Today i rest . This weekend me and my family visited friends who had bought a trampoline:

Me and my kids had some real fun with that . And I got a good excercise for my legs, lower abs (belly) and those muscels that tends to get stiff when working with the computer too much (at the back bone, between my scapulas). After 20 minutes on that i feelt like a 2 hrs workout... Anyway, when I was about to play some TT on Monday I realized my lower belly muscles (abs?) were a bit tired from all the jumping. But me and my most common training partner had a good 2,5 hrs session in the heat (the sun is warming our venue, making it very hot and humid). Since the rest of my family were away with our car I had to go back and forth (also to work) by bike. So, about 20 km of bike riding the same day kind of made it a good day for my legs . My plan was to only use the bike back and forth to work the next day and ahave another TT session on Wednesday, but since my wife changed herplans I had to adapt. So I got myself another hard work day with even warmer weather. about 24 km bike and a little more than 2 hrs of training on Tuesday. But this time I played with a faster and better player and we did some tougher drills (than on Monday when I had some sour muscles).

This is my favourite drill. I start with an easy serve, he pushes it back to my FH, I loop to his BH and he blocks. I get to loop against tops spin this time (this is very important to practice, first loop agasint back spin and then immidiately against top spin, difficult to adapt your stroke but crucial fot my style of palying). My next loop he blocks to my BH and I chop it back. He pushes it back and we start all over again. Normally I do this with a right handed player. Then I both loop and chop to BH, that that can be altered. You can also start with the first loop diagonal and the next loop straight.


We finished off with a match best of 7. We both had lots of nets and edges, but we also played rather good . It was a very close match, even though he won 4-1 (he is a lot higher ranked than me and he also is very good against LP). I think I played the best I can for the moment, but I got a little tired in the 4th when I had a good lead and was about to even (but instead of 2-2 it became 3-1). He played bad early in every set, and then caught up. I used my FH almost 100 % for attacking and some pushing over the table. His FH is a little too fast and hard for me to chop, at least with FH. And he sometimes hits through the sponge (bottons out, a soft and old Stiga Calibra LT Sound), making the attack very flat and with almost no spin. Difficult to block or chop that stroke . I twiddled a lot, but mostly to push back his serves. 90 % of his serves are no spin, low and short. But he sometimes hits a FH serve with his BH-side, making a side spin serve far to my FH. I had some problems with those since I most of the time twiddled before he executed his serve. Every time I tried to return his serve with my LP far to his FH he just smashed it out of my reach. Anyway, here is the match, my first 7-set match ever :

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
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A few days ago I had my first session in tThree weeks (I have never had a break longer than three weeks since I started to practice TT in 2008). I felt slow and my legs were tired. The pupose was just to get rid of abstinence . But we ended the session with a training match. Not many good points from my side, but I had a few good FH chops with LP. I also twiddled wrong a couple of times and had to BH chop with inverted.



I also had a session yesterday, that one was better. But no films. I practiced more FH-chopping with LP and FH-attacks. It felt really good, can't wait to get the season started again .

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

I has been awile since I posted here. Lifa in progress, but about playing TT, more in family and working area. Also my son (7 years) has started to practice tennis and that kind of includes me a bit. Very nice to pick up that bat again, I used to play a lot when I was a teenager.
Yesterday was my first TT session in almost three weeks. Not good, especialy since I have a competition in two days. But 10 of my 80 min of playing yesterday was some of the best I have ever played (1,5 set aginst my fellow defender). Then my footwork fell apart.
Today I will recieve a little shipment from Japsko with Victas Matsushita blade and Victas 401 black smooth rubber. I have a red Dawei 388D without sponge that I will pair with a sponge (don't know which one yet) and put on that blade. I am very curious about the blade, but I think it might be a little slow for me. Or perhaps it will take my game to new hights . About that rubber - i do have a little problem with my Thors being a little unpredictable, especially when blocking and fishing. Just a little difference in impact decides if incomming spin will get a grip on my blade or not. Sometimes I place the ball to the net, next time far out. It has to do with engaging the sponge in the stroke Ithink, but it is still difficult and almost impossible in humid conditions. Hopefully Victas 401 will be better here... Next week I will know!

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

SOunds good... look forward to hearing about the rubber in particular... not much info on that as yet.

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There is a thread in Inverted (viewtopic.php?f=44&t=21009 ), but I couldn't find it (not even listed) at http://www.tabletennisdb.com/rubber/

Lars at Japsko had another customer teling him about it and it sounds very promising. It is suposed to generate more back spin than any Tenergy, more controlled (less speed) than them but very grippy and good for fishing looping with lots of arc. I am not sure if this is for me, I often attack with more chineese style of loop. But I will report back on this in inverted section.

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube

Yesterday I got to play against Bo Torinsson (born 1939, has won lots of titles in Veteran World Champs), who is the highest ranked 70 year old player in Sweden (he is also highest ranked in 75 ) and #995 in Sweden (I am at #2637 ). He uses a Stiga Allround (I think) and DHS PF4 in BH and Yasaka AntiPower on FH (he is left handed). Too bad we only got to plat 1½ set before the whole team match was over (we lost 5-1 and my match agasint Bo never counted). Anyway, I managed to win the first set 15-13 or something like that and it was 4-4 when we stopped. He is a very interesting player to face. He serves long spinny serves, he smashes with BH sometimes (even with FH) and makes heavy back spin with BH and chops with Anti on FH. I did not have that many problems with his anti, I could loop through it. It was harder to loop his heavy back spin from BH. He also blocked well when I attacked. Perhaps there will be some videos of this half match later, and surely there will be a video of my friend beating Bo earlier that evening.
I also got to play a man born 1950 who blocked and pushed and smashed with FH. Sriver on both sides. I had a horrible start, had no clue what to do. Lost fist like 11-4. Second was even but he won 11-9 or something. In third I finally found out what to do and I won it. Fourth I forgot what to do and he got in the lead 6-4. Time out. I managed to recover and won the set 13-11 or something. In fifth I was in the lead 4-0 but he never gave up and got closer and past. We followed each other and I had a match point at 10-9, but I lost 12-10 . I hate those kinds of losses. If I would have won my I would have a real match agasint Bo (and my ranking points would and up much higher, even though he was ranked at my own level ).

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Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Getting better - health and game |
My Youtube