OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I love this

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Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX

I was meaning in a drill setting. I don't remember ever chopping 7 times in a row with anything in a point setting, though I'm sure I have done so. Definitely haven't with long pips and inverted though. Most can remember chopping in a row with long pips in a point setting is 3. Usually just one or two.

But I take what happens in a drill setting as a possibility in a point setting, or like the max chops in a row I can expect.
So like a marker for me. So, I know thst the two highest level of players I've been on the table with since using long pips can sometimes get up to 7ish, but I'd say consistently in a drill setting reach 3ish, sometimes making an error before or after. Everyone else seems to very rarely if ever get past 3, often netting the ball on the second, or even first chop if there was something to work with. So I'm kind of storing this stuff in my head as still learning to what to expect from what when it comes to using long pips with my game.

I want to have fun and win, but it's possible to have fun and lose. And not have fun and win. But not every game is fun, be it because you're playing a knob or their style is cancelling out yours etc. So maybe the only way to guarantee some fun .

Yep, I agree now with the mostly heavy chop and throw in some variations over being in the middle like I used to be. When used short pips, as I said, 60% of chops were medium spin and I'd mix floats and heavy spins. One advantage of thst was I really messed with people. Any ball could be any spin. But I think sticking close to either end is better because it gives your chops more stability from the more repetitive pattern. Plus, if you go with consistent heavy cutting, you really make your opponent work. It's a good workout lifting heavy backspin.

Sounds like I'll like Horizontal with the 55 sponge.

Love your comment re moving the wall. That's the thing, unfortunately there's just always going to be trade offs with defensive equipment. That is until some revolution in equipment happens, or we're all missing something, including the pros.

Sounds like maybe what you really want to get off of annoying people as much as possible. So you're looking for a style/setup to do thst. Think Lorre is looking for a way to get around being in push wars / and go up a level, and I'm looking for a way to be as aggressive a defender as I can. So aggressive chops and hits.

Been watching some Chen Weixing. I think I want thst kind of aggression he has with his defense. Fun to watch and fun to try and approach points with thst mindset. Maybe I should be using him as more of a reference for me to learn from than I have been. If I end up staying with P1r it might be worth experimenting with a sheet of P1r stuck on some even thicker sponge for more variations. Like I'm guessing Chen has done, as read he uses as you said too 1.7mm or something. In fact, if I can source it, 1.7mm sponge around 50-55 degrees hardness, I think I'll definitely do it.

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX

Yeah... not sure how you feel about it, but to me much of my chop training is wasted. Since so few of the points are won during actual chop/loop rallies. I'm investing a huge chunk of my training time practicing chops off the table, when that scenario is not extremely common. I basically have to 'give' them a ball they'll feel comfortable looping to start it off. And as of now, I don't mind doing so because it adds to the fun. On top of that, with the OX LP the better loops/attackers seem to feel more comfortable against that ball. I think the most chops I get during a rally is 4 or 5 even, but only against the guys who don't try to powerloop. They do the 'lift' technique or lighter loops, but still it is rare. And lately I've just been stepping in and SMASHING those returns of theirs. Gotta try a little harder than that, boys!

It's funny to me, I can see which ones have watched the online how to beat a chopper tutorials... they'll do one attack, one push (or 2-3 if I don't put it where they want), then attack and back and forth.

Now, I was supposed to be slapped with something hard for this... but your description of short pip chopping has me wanting to glue them on again! I find with the really grippy pips or even inverted chopping rubber, my wrist isn't bothered as much since they generate spin easier. The boring push rallies for me are done with the OX rubbers. Since I can really only change the speed and placement. In my mind, I imagine the SP being better since I can make an attempt at befuddling them through spin changes. And it doesn't allow them to relax as much compared to OX dink wars. Curses! Man, if I had my old attacking backhand combined with my current game, I feel the level would rocket up! I wouldn't have to deal with the dinkers... but, oh well!

I keep trying to balance out how I can make my BH into some kind of weapon, and not just a wall-ball. Since my style is BH dominant, mentally, even if my FH has become the bigger threat. With OX LP, I pretty much have to FH attack or just go complete dinksville classic defense. So my only intention with swapping to SP would be turning my BH into something feared! Do you think the BH spin variation game is enough of a danger to accomplish that? Or is it still, "ok they messed up my SP return, now I've got to smash a winner anyway"?

The more I think about it, all things considered physically, the Chen Weixing style is probably my best bet to advance with also. Just don't even give those pansies a chance to dink! Say, do you want to attack me and face the chop game? Or do you want to be a wimp and get LOOPED ON, SON!

Some other ones I've mentioned before that use a similar style (but OX LP) are sun jianfei and jian li.

_________________
SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

I'll maybe do a long post later, but just wanted to quickly comment on this. Yes, definitely. I used to win some games against decent level players pretty much only hitting a couple of balls per set. That's not what I wanted to do, but it it serves as a good answer to your question here. I personally believe from experience thst you can win more points at the back with short pips than with long pips. I feel I'm getting more pushes now than when I used short pips and I'm getting way more chances to attack myself, because of the long pips. And also becayss I've become more aggressive, especially with forehand. But yea, with short pips you can totally screw someone over so long as you're in position to do so. That last bit is the key, as short pips are less forgiving on your footwork as well as consistency.

You still might come across people not willing to engage though, so you'll still either need to push till they drop or engage them.

There's a very predictable pattern with long pips. Continue to attack my chop and you will put it in the net, if not on the first one then the second, or the third, etc. It's inevitable. So thst push will come or they will net it. Its not as common thst someone, at least for me, sends it flying high. It happens though. But with short pips, I feel the attacker feels he's closer to winning the point than when I use long pips. By this I mean he's more likely to continue to attack, giving plenty of chances to make him hit the table behind you or dunk it in the net. So he feels 'if only I read the spin right' then I'll crush him. Many even told me so to my face. So they continue to attack and continue to miss lol. Very different type of game to long pips from my experience.

Now, things aren't quite so extreme at pro level, top pro level anyway. But as we see with Hou, much easier to fool you opponent with short pips.

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX

Yeah, that reinforces what I've heard before.

That being:

Long pips - safe, consistent heavy backspin leaves openings for fh finishes

Short pips - more chopping oriented, focused on spin variation and smacking pop ups

But I just know, if I swapped... a month or probably a few days/hours, more realistically, from then I'd be on here griping about no one attacking and getting stuck in long push rallies! Originally I played as a blocker more so, and got tired of that because... in order to block something, someone has to attack you!

I liked chopping better in that regard because even if no one attacks you can still "chop" or push as it's called close to the table. Meaning I was able to impart my own spin and not wait for them (double inverted). I think attacking is the ultimate in being able to play your own game. Since you can choose to hit or not to. It's not based on what you're given much at all. Banana flick over the table any short ball, loop any long ones, smash any high ones.

For me, I might just stick to the OX LP penhold style for the time being. That one changes the angle on my wrist so I can play the traditional backhand smack - which means I won't be limited to passive backhand blocks. Still can't do the penhold reverse loop etc. so I'd be stuck using OX LP on that side. I can loop on the forehand though, twiddling to inverted.

Probably suits me best, mixing attacks with annoyance

I play the anti spin, frictionless anti, LP/MP, short pip forehand etc. etc. all the junk styles, along with chopping off the table. That at least gets people to train with me! Since I can mimic many of the styles they'd face at a tournament. If they wanted to work on LP blocks or inverted chops and lobs away from the table. It's rough on me though for advancing... not only do I have the EJ virus, I have the SV (style virus) as well! All of it an be good, good fun. However, I'm at a point now where I'd like to focus on one and actually try to climb up the totem pole. Rather than be a jack-of-all-trades middling loser So do I want to retool my game for short pip chopping and run into the same problem again, just with a different player base... probably not! I'll be even dumber and run with c-pen long pip blocking/chop blocking/hitting. That's actually closest to my current style, using the OX d.tecs.

_________________
SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

My advice would be to figure out which style you want to play and then figure out the equipment later. If you keep changing equipment and styles, you'll probably annoy yourself even more than you annoy opponents lol.

The penhold long pip inverted style you're practicing certainly sounds like it could potentially tick more of the boxes you seem to want.

Agree with what you said about attackers, thst they can always choose to play their style. If someone doesn't attack, you can't defend. This is why you either need the patience of a sucker fish or an attack they fear more than your defense.

I do find it strange thst it seems you encounter so many people unwilling to engage your defense (Lorre as well). Maybe your defense is above the level you're playing at and opponents just know going in they don't stand a chance there so look for other ways to win and maybe feel they match up with you better at pushing etc.

For me, think I'm going to start studying more of Chen Weixing's matches.

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX

Drills, either pattern or simulation of specific situations, are my favourite things to do in tt maybe, because that's where the improvement happens. I find trying to improve to be the most fun bit. Chopping is very important to my game so to continue to better it and have confidence in it, I need to do drills. I think I might spend more time attacking in drills though...

There's no point in being a 3rd ball attacker in matches and being a chopper in drills, so got to drill things that are relevant to your game. If you don't chop much, and spend more time in competitive play in other areas of the game then those areas need to be drilled more than chopping. But think its also a long game thing. Like building a strong enough foundation to build upon at the next level etc if you want to go up.

Yea, online how to beat chopper tutorials, which often overlaps with how to beat long pimples, you know, cus all you have to do is beat the pips . Remember one guy trying some typical beat pip tactics against me and was confused as to why it wasn't working. He kept shouting out 'it's just pimples man!'. It was actually hilarious, because he was so into it. Another guy tried to serve a dead ball and then flat kill. His face when he kept putting it in the net . Priceless. The sad bit to this is that whenever I've tried looking for stuff online that's meant to teach/help choppers, I pretty much 99% of the time find articles and videos telling people how to supposedly beat us. There's one great article and video about beating choppers that has actually helped me though, and I won't share it in case lots of attackers end up here and read this and go out and start beating choppers . But basically doing situational drills with that in mind has improved my defense. Its something I've done in tennis and only starting to do in tt, which is workout maybe how different players can beat you including tactics and such and train those situations.

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX

I think they just lack confidence in their loop after awhile. I've played people (at tournaments, so not routine partners) who were loop-happy dogs, and no matter what, they'd keep on trying to loop me down. I got a lot of chops in, and even more laughs! They probably do feel more comfortable waiting for a push to attack, rather than a heavy chop to loop battle. Considering they'll usually lose that contest! Meaning their preferred strategy becomes avoid the chop, try to play push-dink ball until a high one comes up and if they attack it I'll chop that. They'll push it back or if I hit it high, they'll try another loop or maybe a smash.

But with other people, like my usual training crowd, they don't like to loop under pressure during games. At least not very often. And I train them against chops pretty regularly. For instance the last time out I played, but only using defense chops/pushes/blocks and the one guy just resorted to legit awful paddy caking the ball (slam bait, basically) until he got a pop up or juicy ball to hit. I was down 8-1, and he missed the next shot bringing me up to 8-2. Then he said something like "C'mon, finish him off!" And I normally don't mind that crap when I'm specifically training something. However, this time, I was a bit annoyed by it and thought to myself 'this doof is actually trying to win!' I got the next 8 points in a row. I think all of them were from my blaster FH's and a service ace. Staying right up at the table, attacking and pivoting around the BH like a madman. Wound up winning the match at 12-10. Finish that off!

Next match, I was trying to simulate an opponent for another club member who plays double inverted loop/smash style. I said, if I were playing you in a tournament (as an attacker) I'd exploit your receive weakness. So I did nothing but top/side-top serves fast or slow to the backhand side and just slaughtered the return. Tons of a 3rd ball kills, making an effort not to use my backhand pips at all. He kind of looked dejected at the end of it, and asked me "Why don't you just play like that all the time?! Crushed me!"

I guess the point to all that crap, is that I choose to chop as a stylistic decision and not really a strategic one. Considering when I go FH kill mode, my wins are usually quicker and more decisive. The only real con to them is the attacking demand feels much harder, physically. It'll take some outside training to get the endurance where it needs to be. Whereas with chopping I can dart around for a few hours without much issue.

Also, I would think some people (attackers) don't like the boring push game either. So perhaps they could win if they did safer shots and a more passive style, waiting for something good. But instead, they'd rather attack how they like - win or lose.

Chen's got a surprisingly athletic style. He looks herky-jerky most of the time, but if you focus on his physical movements you see just how much he's dashing and moving.

Here he is against lower ranked opponents. Much more twiddling from Chen, but you see his bread and butter is still the FH buh-bye loop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDQLIG5w65Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgnVsC6kmo0

_________________
SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

Yep... rare to find a chopper's guide! The ones I've seen are usually run of the mill basics for a beginner (a chop stroke starts high and goes low - dur dur - kind of stuff) or are in a foreign language, like the matsushita youtube video. So I can't tell if anything they're saying is good or not!

Now then, how would you handle a passive player? If they just didn't attack, maybe 1 out of 10 balls - what strategy would you go to in order to bring the beast down?

This girl here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOC_RWwL-XI&

She plays the style I have to implement much of the time, when facing guys who won't attack me. I just pushblock with the OX LP and kill on the forehand. Notice any chopping? ...Me either! Which is why I say the chop practice I do isn't utilized very often, unless I face the loop-punks as I call them. Win or lose, they're trying to loop it home. I make sure to always congratulate those guys. I beat them the majority of the time, except when the looper is a good deal better than me just in general. But I say thanks and what a fun match it was etc. etc. they don't always reply

_________________
SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

Post them!

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

I think the dink dink strategy is a symbol of our times. When I started playing table tennis this wasn't an issue at all. I played a lot of games chopping away from the table. Nowadays I have to search really good to find one. In the past people were taught to honor their skills in order to advance further in the future. Nowadays quick wins matter, even if they hamper the advancement in the future.

It also seems to me only a certain level of attackers apply the strategy: those between 1500 USATT - 2000 USATT rating (gross estimation). They don't seem to be able to advance any further into their TT careers. Confirms the first point I brought up.

Finally it also might be the case - like already being mentioned - that my defense is way ahead in comparison to their attacking skills and to my other skills. But I think ATM it was my inconsistent pushing due to the rest in my life and the lack of good training that made my attacking opponents pushies. Well, a lot of them, not all of them.

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There's always stuff to improve!

My blog on being a LP defender beyond 2000 USATT and the pips discrimination that comes along with that

Firstly, the girl in the video is a nice player who uses her pips well with the blocker/side swipe then forehand kill style. She's not a chopper though. I'd be really surprised if I saw another video of her where she's chopping in competitive play, friendly or not. The style she's using appears to be her style, and I imagine she'd try to play it against everyone. Maybe I'm being a fool and literally her next video she's chopping . I think my point would still stand though.

I think if we refer to the Ding Song interview again, I'd like to point out the bit where he talked about one of the big problems for choppers. A chopper has to train more aspects of the game than an attacker. This means less time can invested in each aspect compared to an attacker, who can invest pretty much all their time into making their attack as devastating as possible. This really matters at pro level since they all train full time, the better ones anyway. At amateur level or even semi pro maybe, it doesn't matter quite as much perhaps but it's still relevant.
I'm assuming that's her style, the girl in the video. So she trains thst style. Gets better at it. Improves the shots relevant to this game style, as well as tactics. Learns to deal with various opponent types, but using her style. Think we all build a foundation, like to a building, and we build up from there. Which is why is it can be like starting again when expanding on thst foundation.

It sounds like you've got a very wide foundation and can play a bunch of styles, but continuing to build up from such a wide platform will limit the speed with which you can build up. If you play the style of the girl in the video most of the time, why not just make thst your style across the board? It's an effective style and it will allow you to keep points quite short. Can't imagine many push wars if you implement that style. Unless you're not being aggressive enough with the side swipes with the pips and your forehand kill shot.

You will end up in a lot of long rally retrieving situations or push wars, depending on the opponent, if you play the classic defense, only attack the easy ball style. Nothing wrong with the style, but it requires a lot of patience and I think not thinking about pushing till the end of days as a bad thing. So from what you've said, it's not the style for you, or Lorre, since you both have talked about that and want to avoid it. If you're not going to be aggressive, not every opponent will take the bull by the horns and engage you. It looks like it's even a possible situation at pro level, based on the Suh Hyowon match linked a few messages ago. But would say the higher you go the less likely that it to happen, making the classic defense style more entertaining for sure.

10 years ago or so, if I played an attacker who would only say push 1 out of 10 balls, how I'd respond would depend on their skillset. I'd say most of the time I'd have attacked them within a few pushes, but can think of some examples where that didn't happen, and I ended up in a kind of push war, but was still looking for balls to attack. In the push war cases, it was usually me fearing so to speak their counter to me opening up. So would pick my spots more. If I played a chopper, I'd just take on the role of an attacker. Can't remember being a chopper against another chopper.

Nowadays things have been changing in thst regard. Partly because of the equipment but think also just understanding myself more, which advances I made in my tennis game showed me. I realised all I am really looking for is to give myself the time to end the point of my terms. So my tennis style has developed into an aggressive take the ball early and create openings/hit winners style. I've based a lot of my tactics on Federer and Djokovic (even though Nadal is my favourite, like maybe my favourite ever sportsman next to Ali). Ironically, taking the ball early, which gives me less time on the ball, actually ends up giving me time on the next shot more often than not. In table tennis, I'm doing it differently, but looking for same result. I'm starting to use the chop to create the opening/time I need to end the point. And this is probably why I won't go back to short pips if I really think about it. The predictable nature of long pips sets up this opening, whereas with short pips I'd be finishing the point a lot before even creating the opening.

So I'm less likely to end up in a push war now, because most pushes are openings, aside from the very well placed ones. But I have gotten into one passive game with long pips so far. I didn't do anymore than 2/3 pushes in a row maybe, but still felt like a push war because was using backhand with P1r to kind of roll the ball around. Killing the ball wity my forehand when the opportunity was created. I felt I had to do this against this specific player because he was literally making next to no mistakes, just amazing control, and to his credit, was finding it difficult to play the way I wanted to. I won that one, but I think I'd like to play that one using my forehand attack almost exclusively, bar the odd push, in the future. I was extending the rallies by hitting with P1r. Think he exposed an issue with my speed of footwork in honesty, as he pushed with sniper like accuracy and did a great job of limiting my usage of my forehand. I'd also like to get good at twiddling for such situations, so can use backhand attack with inverted.

But basically, a push is an opportunity to attack generally, so if they won't attack 9/10 times, they're giving you plenty of chances to attack. Attack it well enough and you'll probably finish the point within one or two strikes, unless they are a chopper.

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX

Cmon, finish him off . In practice too. Knob. Serves him right thst you came back and beat him.

Sounds to me you don't play thst more aggressive style you feel works better also because it's not your temperament. Talking tennis again, watch Nadal in training. He blasts the s*** out of the ball, hitting so hard his sparring partners often struggle to keep the ball in play. It would be easy for them to turn around and say why don't you play like thst in matches. But he's more instinctively a defender / counter puncher. Instinctively, it seems maybe you're not a 3rd ball attacker. So you feel more at home with the dink style as you call it. That wouldn't be a problem if you were not bothered by push wars. So perhaps a closer to the table blocker / side swipe long pip + inverted kill would be better for you, since you would be essentially finishing off easier balls. That's my two cents from what I know about your game thus far. But it wouldnt make sense to become a chopper all of a sudden once someone starts being aggressive. Best to retain a style and adapt it to your opponent, but not change entirely. But you can be a defender and still not chop in a match if your opponent just gives you opportunity after opportunity or if you're able to setup opportunities early in the point. That's not changing style, just more like fast forwarding to the end bit of your strategy lol.

If you do a bunch of 100% attacks in a row and a bunch of 100% chops in a row, I agree, attacking is more physical, but i feel you're more likely to keep points shorter when attacking, and when you factor in all the moving when defending, I'd say chopping requires more fitness than attacking. You physically struggling more with attacking could also be something like my backhand attack at the moment. I'm not practicing it as much as the forehand. Backhand attacking maybe my least practiced shot since changing to long pips, and I've noticed I can feel the strain when I drill it. My arm gets tired temporarily. Never used to happen so think it's just becayss it works the muscles differently and I'm not using them as much lately. Need to change thst though as want to get this twiddling down and start being able to attack properly off both wings on point play again.

Chen becoming my favourite tt player . I think he's the nearest to how I want to play style wise. I love it. Makes even chopping feel like a pressure cooker. Thanks for the links. Really good stuff . Gonna study the second one particularly.

Just need to make a note to self to avoid going fanboy and buying a Chen Weixing blade

_________________
Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX

Well, I'll tell you this... if you like the JSH and how it feels -- DO NOT BUY THE CHEN!

He doesn't even use that crap! I've got 2 of them and 1 of the chen defender blades. Nothing special and kind of slow overall. Can't recall seeing one pro use it (not that that means amateurs can't do fine with it). Big benefit I liked at the time was its larger than usual handle.

Yeah, what I meant by the girl in the video was she didn't do ANY chopping. And I often find myself mimicking that style, so the chop portion of my training is more of a fun hobby within a hobby! All in all, the people I play against seem to fear that game plan the most. Since I'm ready and waiting there to loop-kill a winner if they don't hold me back with pressure. Whereas with chopping, it's more of a slowplay as I've mentioned. Mentally less intimidating to them working against a push for the 50th time... perhaps more mentally fatiguing and annoying though.

I think that's what I dislike most at the moment. The chopping (with ox against people who won't attack) presents a low pressure scenario for the opponent, and simply taxes their patience and focus. And if the FH attack is the only real threat, then it's easier for me to stick near the table and side step to land one. As opposed to chopping off the table, having to move in and out in addition to side to side movements. The OX LP returns aren't much different near or far from the table. They can only add so much spin, based on what the opponent sends over - you can kill the spin or continue more of it. So what I'd be sacrificing by sticking to the block/loop strategy is the forehand chop/fish. Even with twiddling and using inverted to push/chop on the backhand, it's still fairly low pressure if you don't attack. Attrition battles! I actually really like winning that way, but the style can be a drag both to players and spectators... I know when facing some guys the people waiting would groan and moan, knowing the 2 dinkers were going to be in for a marathon that style is what I call issuing a challenge without pressure. It's like if I stood 8 feet away from you and tossed a basketball at you and the first one to miss loses. The actual feat isnt very difficult, but the sheer mind numbing repetiviness of it eventually leads to a defeat. I think that's ehat ultimately bothers me. But with short pips ir inverted chopping you are trying to at least bring an error through skill and risk, not merely repetition fatigue.

For me, defending is only tiring to a good degree when also implementing attacks often. The footwork to reach a ball and chop is a lot less than to reach a ball, scoot into position to loop and then unleash an attack in my case. No doubt on the muscle memory - if you add in a new stroke, even though it's lightweight, the high repetitions can get you quite sore. That's why even if I'm not playing for awhile (on a trip etc.) I'll still do the shadow motions now and again just to keep myself from getting DOMS at the next session.

The Chen style is quite appealing. He basically prevents anyone from soft playing him, because the ol' boy is always ready to zing 'em with a forehand. Against the amateur guy, Chen shot him down with inverted BHs as well. In fact, it seems his attacking is plan A and he goes to chopping only if they can pressure him enough. Whereas I think Joo became more content with chopping and picked the attacking spots with more discretion. That is to say, some games you see Joo play as a relatively classical defender. Attacks few and far between. In all the many matches of Chen I've seen, never once would I describe it as even being close to classic defender. Sounds like that's what you're aiming toward. Setting up the FH killer. I guess the main difference there is whether you want to FH chop or FH fish, and which is better for your setups. I think Chen likes receiving top spin to his FH so he doesn't mind the exclusive fishing. Then you're also not dividing your training time. Also, he pretty much never twiddles when facing equal or better players. It seems he is not THAT comfortable with the technique to utilize it under fire against good opponents.

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SOULSPIN CUSTOM BLADES
Fh: Spinny rubber
Bh: Not so spinny rubber...

Thanks for turning me off the Chen blade lol. Joo never supposedly used the Joo blade either, but from what I've read Ruwen Filus and Suh Hyowon do. Yea, haven't had any issues with the Joo blade at all.

It really does sound to me that you should just adopt the style of the girl in the video pretty much full time. You're chopping because you like it, but it doesn't fit with your game it seems against most people, or your mindset. If you want to shorten the rallies as a chopper or just force them to engage you, rather than hoping they do, I think you probably need at least 1mm of sponge under your pips and chop the ass off the ball and be aggressive when your opponent decides to sit back and see what you do. Or just accept what comes with a classic defense approach, which is lots of long rallies, possibly push wars against people who don't want to engage. Or got with the close to the table style of the girl in the video.

Yep, plan A is attack. Plan B is defend. That's the exact approach I want to take. Keeps things fast paced, even if you're chopping. I showed a sparring partner the video of Chen you linked and he then found one of him playing Waldner and I said this is how I want to play, so want to work on playing like this. He said how I play now is not unlike him, so there was a compliment somewhere in there. Think I'm still drilling the plan A/B thing into my head though to make it more automatic. Plus need to work on twiddling and such. And just getting better.

Yea, Chen doesn't twiddle as much against players his own level. Seems strange in a way considering just how competent he is at it. But then again, under pressure, I understand taking the sturdier approach over the riskier one. Against guys lower than him, if he twiddles to do a chop and it pops up a bit, doesn't matter much. Do thst against a higher level player and its the point done. Such small margins when competing at your own level, whatever that level is. Still, it's there should he need it. Don't think I'll do much twiddling with chopping, but definitely to attack with backhand. Maybe the odd push. Think I'll take just working on chopping with one rubber on either side.

Whatever the reason, maybe his illness, but Joo seemed to get closer to classical defense the later in his career he got. I believe if he'd have approached most matches the way he did the Samsonov Volkswagon match from set 3 onwards he'd have done even better in his career. He had all the tools, most well rounded defender in a long time in my opinion. Moved well, big forehand, steady defense, approached big points well, could work his way through gears rather than being at a flat level.

If all goes well I'll be picking up Horizontal 55 on Friday.

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Standard Setup 1
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P1r 1.5mm

Standard Setup 2
Blade - Joo Sae-Hyuk ST
FH - DHS Hurricane 3 Neo 2.2mm
BH - TSP Curl P4 1.5mm

Hardbat Equipment (Former Full-Time Hardbat Player)
Blade - Marty Reisman custom 5 ply Hock
Rubber - Yasaka Cobalt Alpha OX