OOAK Table Tennis Forum

China sports with a candid camera.

https://youtu.be/0W__FbmCSZE?t=1235

Interesting to read this as I was watching some footage of some multiball I did and it looked to me like I was going backwards a bit.. and I thought I was supposed to be going forward as that's what everyone always says one should do.

My usual training partner and I bought 100 balls and decided to start feeding some multi-ball once in a while. Though I've realized I need to be a bit careful. It gave me quite a bit lower back and a bit right hip discomfort which I've had from this movement before - I think I tend to overrotate and maybe lift my right hip/leg too much on the follow through. The right side of my body feels weaker too so it's likely I need to do some strength exercises and strengthen my core as well. FH vs backspin seems especially taxing on the back - it isn't surprising that bending and twisting excessively might not be that good for it . I find multiball extremely fun but I don't think I can go full out like I'm doing here for very long and I shouldn't do it often, at least not for FH vs backspin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvTyDUI1YtU

It looks good Rich. Your body movement looks perfect to me.

Start your backswing later. Keep your racket behind the flight of the ball for as long as possible. Walk around after every 5-10 shots for recovery.

Watch this guy. His racket stays above the table for a little longer than you. I know it's hard to see when you haven't looked for it before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ_8tEhY_Ck . It means that his backswing is faster and some of that backswing may force against his upwards and rotating body movement. This is the real gold.

So, to keep is simple, keep your racket above the table for longer before entering the backswing.

_________________
Get your 3 wishes here today!
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching

Here is an example of me delaying the shot and getting a small part of the fast backswing into the forward/upward body turn.

_________________
Get your 3 wishes here today!
ttEDGE.com Professional online coaching

Would love to have been a fly on the wall during that session

Among other things, I have been practicing BH topspin vs backspin. For some reason, the advice to squat and straighten the back works better for me than the advice to squat and thrust (although they're supposed to mean the same thing).

It seems that I can use my body better than previously for this shot. Today, I tried to delay my backswing, but I wasn't able to do so -- it's difficult to change habits.

https://youtu.be/icnYAIy9rfw

I have been working on my BH vs. backspin a bit too. I really like how @chopblock can keep his arm structure firm against backspin. I have a tendency to collapse my arm structure when facing heavy spin and I am afraid it causes inconsistency under pressure.

BTW, I am playing with Mercury II on my BH now.

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast

thanks. i would say that the exercise I was doing is easier than your exercise (you had to move towards the ball and you faced more backspin). the way you use your body looks good. sometimes you lean backward a little while straightening the back. previously, i would have said that it's suboptimal, but Boll was doing it in the video Brett posted (while playing a FH topspin vs backspin). maybe this happened when you faced a lot of backspin.

how do you like Mercury II on the BH? how does it compare to what you previously used?

Mercury II is one the slowest rubber I ever played with, even boosted with 2 layers of Falco. It is probably faster than a pre-made racket from a local sporting good store I used 10 years ago, but not much. In order to get a decent speed against the block, I have to swing with my whole body like there is no tomorrow. I kind of like it because the whole point of switching to it was making my life easier on returning long topspin serves. In that case, the slower the better, so it perfectly fits the purpose.

I also switched my FH back to Hurricane 3 (from a "hybrid" German tensor) and it went completely seamless.

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast

Is Mercury II slower than H3? I tried H3 and stopped using it because it was too slow for me (even when boosted - I'm talking about the "retail" H3, not the expensive stuff). I've used Mercury II several times (mainly on my backhand) and found it pretty much interchangeable with the myriad $5-6 sheets out there (Yinhe 9000, 729 Batwings, etc.) and didn't notice that it was any slower than H3. If anything it was just slightly faster than 729 or Yinhe 9000.

Iskandar

From my experience, a well-boosted H3 is quite fast, close to slower modern EuroJap rubbers. But I use "Provincial" version from TT11. Interestingly, H3 requires a period of breaking in, maybe 4 hours of play. After that, it becomes a lot faster.

_________________
Tactics Enthusiast

I'm not convinced, because I reckon the vast majority of players don't do what Brett is suggesting. How about a poll - does ANYONE serve like that?

Thanks Brett, the stuff about delaying the backswing has been really helpful for all my strokes - and I can do it more. I guess it's easy to start the backswing as soon as the body starts pulling the arm and hand back (which happens naturally and to me, isn't the "real" backswing), it's very tempting to bring the arm back and start the backswing as the body is bringing it back which I think often leads to an early backswing and then it's not completely coordinated with the body. Feels to me like the backswing should start (and be done very quickly), when the push from the legs/body work begins so that as you say - the backswing is forced against the body movement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKsxyXdjtA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyKyfQN2oiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTb9nXQXxOA&t=
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5qeMkdeaQ0

Here are several videos of pros practicing serve. Almost all of them are loaded with spin. Those that aren't have close to no spin. For their serves to have less spin they'd have to intentionally slow down their racket speed or get a thicker contact which would most likely result in a no spin ball. I get that in these videos they are just practicing, but have you ever seen a pro intentionally slow down their racket speed in a match to serve with less spin? If they slow down their racket speed, it's much easier to see what spin is on the ball and it's easier to flick and push short.

So what would be the purpose of serving with less spin when it's easier to read the contact and the flight of the ball? If they did serve with less spin, why is pretty much every single serve in the practice videos loaded? If they sometimes serve with less spin, shouldn't they be practicing those serves too?

Perhaps at the non pro level it's possible that it can sometimes be useful to serve with less spin as it might be more difficult to handle the spin coming back to you if you served with heavy spin.
Speaking from my own experience when I've served with less spin - it's just easier for my opponent to flick or push the serve short, I haven't experienced that it helps disguise my heavier serve. So I always aim to serve with max spin, unless I serve nospin. Also for topspin serves it might help to add more sidespin so the serve doesn't kick long for the opponent to topspin, but I still think in general it isn't a good idea to serve with less spin, I believe serving with variation of the type of spin in combination with nospin to be more useful.

Hi, Brett ! maybe this video can add some interesting facts to the discussion on China's Supremacy in tt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Rr_vvGsaA