OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Sure BRS, it's sometimes a footwork issue as well, but I think reaching out for the ball is a common problem, even when players don't have to move.

Ringer is right about having more time when you wait for the ball with correct elbow position, especially on the backhand where people generally have the biggest problems. It should feel like you are using your elbow as a near stationary hinge and then you are forced to wait til the ball is closer.

I spoke with a very good young Chinese player recently (approx rating 2700) and asked about the elbow position. He said the Chinese have made big changes in this area to improve consistency on the backhand side.

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BTW, there are balls going to William's middle in the video. He is just extremely good at dealing with them, so you don't notice. I had one or two balls to my middle as well.

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Reaching out is definitely also a big problem. It's nearly impossible to wait for the ball. Any time I play someone with anti or 0X, or who is just good at changing speeds, it is obvious how effective a slow ball can be.

I think lack of anticipation skills plays a big part in that. It's the repetition of being behind the play, late to move, late to react, that conditions players to always rush even when it is wrong.

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But what if the ball is slowing down as it comes to you? The fear is that one will be forced to hit a dropping ball and moving up to meet the ball isn't easy either.

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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

ETTS13 is posted. At the end brett says something about the blade face being at a 45 degree angle, but I didn't catch which serve that was for. Maybe side-under, as that was the main focus of the video. I should watch it again.

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The key thing is the elbow being high. You can get heavy backspin with a pretty vertical racket face using the pendulum serve and that is when it is at its most deceptive as people find it harder to tell the difference between side back and side top. This is when my pendulum is at its best.

There is an easier even if inferior variant that I have seen some pretty good players do where rather than doing a whippy backswing, they just straighten their arm on the backswing, Bs then come forward and hard into the ball while keeping the elbow high. I mention it because for some people, that might be much easier and while it telegraphs the amount of spin, the high elbow and contact are still equally deceptive and it might be easier for people who have major timing issues like myself to copy. For that version, I tend to pull my racket consistently into the body to finish the stroke.

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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Great info. I've always served my pendulum with the elbow down low. I've also never understood whether the direction of my swing should finish more towards my body or more towards the opponent.I'll give this is a try sometime.

Part of the reason I don't practice my serves is because I feel clueless on how to improve them. Thanks Brett.

The other benefit of the elbow being high is that the outward curve on the pure sidespin and corkscrew versions of the pendulum can be massive and you can ace players just on their missing the ball curve. And power players who like to wipe out the balls with their backhands sometimes have to slow down against that level of pendulum curve unless they can anticipate it.

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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Same here Ringer. I practice them a lot but they don't improve much because I don't understand exactly what the hell is supposed to happen.

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How do you get corkscrew spin on a pendulum serve? Do you come under the bottom of the ball with the bat moving sideways (relative to the table)?

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Something like that but I think it's something people learn by experiment.

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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Part of it is experimentation, part of it is coaching. My view is that people should get their backspin and no spin serves down before venturing into the other stuff. You can do it in other ways of course, but the path to learning other serves is easier if one understands backspin and no-spin.

The first serve in this video is the straight arm version I am talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z18QJrAsxrQ

Here is another:

https://youtu.be/9ZgRpjjfYU8?t=3093


What I find interesting is that the vertical racket angle face principle for heavy side backspin can be applied to the reverse pendulum serve as well but Brett doesn't teach that variant. I did develop a variant of my backhand serve that uses it though. This is the kind of thing I mean by experimentation. You have to know what the ball flight path means and use it as feedback to experiment with your contact to create different spins.

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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Yes. That's it. I've got a corkscrew side/top that always pops up to my backhand. Fantastic serve even against 1800s. The key is to make it bounce twice

The first serve in the video has very poor coordination of the backswing and stroke. As a result, there is very little spin. This exactly what I tell people to stay away from. The guy is coming in from a standing start and it can't improve.

Straightening the arm has some merit if timed correctly, but this is not an example of that. For example, I think Jarryd could possibly straighten his arm a little as he properly understands how to serve.

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I have never understood how people get really heavy backspin on a backhand sideswipe serve. They certainly never touch the bottom of the ball.

If I knew what the ball flight path meant i am sure it could help my serve practice, but i'd be more excited to use it for receiving.

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