OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I'm wondering if someone can help me with a Service Return problem.

I've just finished playing in a (Veterans) tournament. My performance wasn't completely hopeless, but I found myself getting caught out consistently by opponents serving long to my elbow, usually with a bit of chop. I know that the preferred response (one that Brett says should be hard-wired) is: Long serve, therefore automatically return with a quality FH topspin. However, I was not quick enough or consistent enough to cause enough trouble to the opponents. I wonder how other people react to that tactic (because some of my opponents were doing it to me fairly constantly, almost as if they had all decided this was my key weakness: I think they detected that I didn't react quickly enough and hence got caught out there on a regular basis).

Should I get on the move in some random way (laterally) as the server gets started, thereby presenting less of a static target, or is some sort of pre-return bounce action (which I see in a lot of good players – but I'm not one of them) the way to go? I suppose being aware of the issue and using matches to experiment with possible alternatives would be one way to progress, but standing as still as a statue on my service return is clearly not working.

IMHO it is all in one's head, so tricks like jumping around are not going to help much. Whenever I meet someone who purposefully serves into my elbow often, I try to wait specifically for that serve and mentally play out how I return them. Does not mean I get all of them back on the table, but it makes me react at least. Just keep trying and it will get better with time (slowly). Looping long serves well is very difficult unless you have been playing all day since age 7, it just takes forever to learn. I am bad at that stuff too.

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Tactics Enthusiast

Just loop the long serves, they said.

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Tactics Enthusiast

I've been using my backhand more on returns. Willing to move some to the forehand side to hit a backhand especially against half long. I wonder how this would work for longer serves too.

Other idea is if you are being served deep a lot then just move back more. You can đo it when they toss the ball up even. I feel like it's best to adjust in a big way and quickly in a best of 5 match.

+1 to wilkinru's suggestion. Try sliding over to your left and play a bh. If you can play it a little bit inside-out off the servers fh corner he may decide that serve isn't a great tactic after all.

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It is very important if you have a rational approach to improvement in table tennis to never beat up yourself for getting beat by a play you have not put in hours to practice against. Maybe the one time you can beat up yourself is when you have a weakness, always knew you had it, had the opportunity to work on it, decided not to because you were not in the mood even though you had an event in a month where you might be tested on it, then went to that event and your opponent tested that skill and you looked like an idiot. Otherwise, there are always gaps to exploit, you just need to work on them and plug then.

The video Dr Pivot posted with national team player from Korea getting harassed by long serves in practice is a perfect example. If she is practicing that much against serves and still getting beat by a player with good serves in practice at her level, unless you have practiced and fixed the problem, just find time in practice to work on it. And if you don't have the practice hours to work on it, don't beat yourself up over it. Table tennis is not primarily intellectual and logical, it is primarily trained and practiced and you are largely executing what you have rehearsed a lot.

Usually, if someone is beating you, most other things being equal, it is because they have more experience (through practice or match play) in the pattern they are playing than you have. I couldn't loop long serves for a long time, but I practiced and it is one of the better parts of my game, though balls to the elbow do give me trouble. But the issue is usually reading the serve length and getting into position and not rushing the shot because the ball will come off the table if you are in position. But even telling you the approach is not going to fix the problem until you practice it and see what you have to adjust to to make it work for you.

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One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Thanks for all those suggestions about coping with long serves to the body. I could also have led out with long “skiddy” serves to my wide backhand. Both indicate a basic weakness in my service return that is not linked to reading spin. And like most people, I’m usually happy to receive long serves to my FH.

Of course it’s one thing to return a serve, but another to do so with enough quality so that the third ball doesn’t come back with interest. Probably the first thing to do will be to get my usual practice partner to hammer me with lots of serves to the body (as per NL’s advice), while throwing in a variety of others, just to keep things more realistic (as in the video posted by @Dr.Pivot).

I like this NL response.

Exposure to a situation is king. It's more important than asking what you should do. It's not so much about which shot you choose to play, though your shots do need to be right.

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Washed Up Table Tennis (WUTT) update.

Last night I had my first WUTT loss. It was against a guy I'm training/coaching atm and his name is Sam. I felt like he beat me pretty well, so I need some help from you guys...give me the tactics and words of wisdom!!! No, I didn't record any games for many reasons.

Here is a video of Sam playing against a very serious Chinese, for your reference. Keep in mind his Chinese opponent is 2900 (or whatever) and I'm just washed up etc, so you'll need to use your imagination whilst guiding me.

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Brett, did you try to serve short to his forehand and then loop heavy?

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Tactics Enthusiast

LOL, of course I did but there were 2 problems. The first was he pushed lots of half long balls and I was making too many outright errors. The second was I looped directly into his backhand too often and he made a bunch of backhand counterloops. On top of this, he made a few banana flick which I didn't enjoy. He did make quite a few outright errors against the serve, but not enough to consistently get me over the line.

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Sorry this guy might be just a better player. He almost got a game off a real CNT player lol. And if you can't loop the half long return, it may not be a tactics problem.

But let's play along...

More side backspin, both regular and reverse to the short forehand. I think your backhand or punch serve is required here to go with your pendulum.

Loop the return to all three points on the table.

On his serve, you have to put the ball into the short forehand, but if you can't, don't spin hard into the backhand, just get the ball there preferably with sidespin. Only go into the backhand after going into the forehand (if you have that kind of quality/control).

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Sad Unfortunately, that was the only tactic I knew

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Tactics Enthusiast

Serve to his forehand, almost always short 70% of the time. Serve long to his shoulder 10% of the time and serve to his backhand short or long(wide) the other 20% of the time to keep him honest. Be in the ready position as your serve hits his side of the table. Keep the serve low on the short balls or the flick will come too fast and no counter will be possible. Attack the middle or wide backhand with your lefty forehand with quality. Be prepared to hit a few balls from block as he won't make many mistakes.

Return to the forehand short or backhand long. Attack half long/long serves but be ready to hit 4-5 balls in a rally. Get to the wide backhand with your forehand.

https://youtu.be/9SkcZJaTw4M?t=169 you can see him inching over to do a flick from the forehand side and gets caught. This is keeping them honest.

Welp that was fun . Probably just need to get your mistakes down by doing drills against the thing you were making mistakes on. Watch the video every minute or so while you do them to work out any mistakes until it looks right. I think you know a coach or two who could help with the technique.

Or give him Corona virus.

I just imagined a team of forum members coaching Brett between games in a match against this guy, with Brett listening to the advice with a straight face.

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Tactics Enthusiast