OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I preferred C1 as well.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Thank you. I'm not sure if I'd call mine a forehand loop. I'd probably call it more of a forehand topspin. Actually, I'm not sure of the nuance between the two terms. But I feel like loop implies a lot more spin, possibly but not necessarily a slower ball.

I think there is a big difference between our strokes in the sense that it's a slightly different ball. What I mean by this is that you're generally taking the ball a little later (at the top of the bounce or slightly after) whereas I'm trying to take the ball before the top of the bounce (or at latest, by the top of the bounce). What this changes is what type of ball we're hitting. I see you've got a lot more upper movement in your stroke. Trying to create a lot more spin on every ball. Whereas I'm trying to hit the ball a lot more forward, creating spin via impact, though of course still spinning it as much as I can like that. Actually, I was going to mention this yesterday when I saw your post, but it so happens that you guys basically mentioned everything I thought I'm just going to quote and comment on them anyway.


I agree with this. I think the upper arm is being taken back a little too much, but if you have the time, I think it's okay. I find that my first ball of the rally generally has a bigger motion with the body and arm because I have the time. But as the rally goes on, my stroke definitely gets smaller depending on the ball. Sometimes the backswing (how much I rotate my body too) is less just because I want to get the ball at the same timing (on the rise).


Yeah, this is kinda what I felt when I saw your video too. I think you end the swing too high against block. But I think that's also part of the way you're creating spin at the moment. I'm not sure if I'm going to say something crazy at the moment, but I might say it anyway! Recently I feel like the 'right' way to generate spin on the forehand topspin is by contacting the ball a little thicker. I don't mean like a smash. You're still going diagonally up with your swing to generate spin, but like, you're letting the ball sink into the sponge to catapult forward a little more. I feel like thin brushing is the way to generate spin when looping backspin, and "thick brushing" is the way to go against block or topspin. Adding a little more to this, I feel like if you're taking the ball late, thin brushing is better and if you're taking the ball early or at least above net height, "thick brushing" works well.


This I really agreed with when I read it. Actually, I've been trying to get my contact point a little more forward like NL mentioned. Part of the "thick brushing" I mentioned above. I feel like this is actually one of the changes to my FH recently that I like, on top of using more rotation of the body. I feel like this works well if you're playing closer to the table, and it's probably a more athletic style, which is what I'm aiming for.

I'm not sure if this matters, but I'm using H3 Neo 40 degrees on my forehand, unboosted, just straight out of the packet. It is getting a little old atm though. Over 6 months now I think. When I try other rubbers like Tenergy or any other rubber, if I hit the ball in the same way, it definitely feels a lot faster, but also less spinny. My practice partner says it doesn't feel as "heavy".

Sorry for the wall of text. This is probably one of the longer posts I've done.

This was one of the videos that originally got me thinking about the "thick brushing".

It's a World Rubber Market video that I translated awhile back per someone's request. It took me time to get the "feeling" of it though. And I still feel like I can get more powerful with my forehands.

I think some of you may have seen it. I know NL definitely knows about it since I posted it on myTT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX31FTT_dPc (turn on subtitles if you plan to watch it)

Wilkinru, My thoughts for what is worth?. As you know a lack of fold results in your right leg not bent enough to cause the fold. What I have found that this results in a less dynamic push off the ground at the start of the stroke as the leg is too straight. I see in your forehand a lack of aggressive push off the ground from the right leg. I would be interested to see your forehand if you added this element. I am sure Brett will comment if I am off the mark.

In another reality (webforums are all different realities, even when they share personalities), I tried to use this video to explain to a player why his forehand wouldn't be considered a high level stroke. My comment was taken personally rather than as an explanation of what to work on. I was told ultimately that FFF is the key and that this forehand is just one variant of forehand technique. I understand both perspectives and I actually take the ball late more often in practice (partly because I realize that taking the ball consistently early with good power makes it harder not just for me but for my opponent to practice). But I can tell someone's preferred impact and timing from most of the balls he hits in a match.

I don't think Yassun was doing anything special other than showing what good players do to get faster and more powerful shots and I think Gucci was exaggerating for entertainment like he usually does. But most good modern players are trying to hit thicker forehands earlier when the opportunity presents itself. But what that thicker and earlier forehand looks like IMO is up to you. But people can tell when they are seeing it and when they are not seeing it. And I actually forgot that there was a section where Yassun displays his base motion for swinging into the ball with thick impact. I have probably stolen more ideas in TT than I realize (though I arrived at many of them in my own limited practice and just saw them again elsewhere).

Now all of this said, there is nothing wrong with hitting the ball old school and taking it later and adding wrist and being consistent in my opinion if you play better that way. In fact I would agree that in addition to FFF, if you are not trying to be world class, there are techniques for hitting balls that are easier to use and can get you to a good competitive level if you work on them and have good movement. But you can still do this with some elements of modern technique like lining up with the ball consistently.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

It makes it a little harder in practice, but in a match it makes it *a lot* harder on your opponent. My one good tournament that set my high rating that was srsly the only difference in my play. I was routinely taking the ball at top of the bounce and many of my 2000-2100 opponents did not have a stroke that worked with that timing.

We obsess about our own technique our own stroke production, etc. We don't spend a ton of time thinking about it from the opponent's POV.

I am exactly where mickd is right now. Using a hard sponge slow fh rubber (aibiss, it's the shizzle!) and moving my contact timing and swing plane forward with a thicker contact.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

I hadn't seen the Yassun video before. It's very interesting and thank you very much mickd for the subs. Yassun looks like a Japanese wilkinru to me. Especially the way his wrist moves through the stroke.

Watching the points between 1:10 and 1:30 at .25x I see how he keeps his arm loose with no force while applying a really strong swing with his body. I think that's a big part of why he gets much more quality than gucchy from the same effort. Unfortunately that's also really really difficult to do. At least it is for me.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

Trust me you have seen it before. You just don't remember the alternate reality.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Today I played with H3neo on the forehand and a all wood blade. I felt like I could hit as hard as possible counter hitting without being able to miss. Looping was sure different and sadly my serves were all a mess. Quite a difference in general but I liked how it encouraged me to hit flatter at times.

I don't think my forehand needs an overhaul. I think I need to work on staying lower and continue to develop my legs/body to aid the shot and hopefully I can start to bring the arm down some on the follow through. Terminal velocity is required. Still lots of other stuff I'm remarkably worse at like forehand flicking and nearly anything over the table.

I sort of like being the American Yassun! He's way better but I do admire his style.

Good points in this thread, makes me think about top of bounce, flatter hitting, position on the table. Lots of interesting discussion.

What is the real terminal velocity of a ping pong paddle moving forward at 45°, and how close to it does the hardest swinger in the world get? Asking for a friend.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

Never mind, wikipedia says termnial velocity only applies to falling objects. Should have learnt fisiks in schoole.

_________________
Smile in the mirror. Do that every morning and you'll start to see a big difference in your life.

Yoko Ono

Given that in practice, Yassun can hit the same spot on the table 3 times in a row without thinking about it or using sidespin and takes the ball much earlier, I think your focus is doing a disservice to Russ. During matches, everyone hits the ball off balance and with all kinds of weird contact.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

We await video of your loops where the loop looks consistent. We can blame the blocker for being inconsistent but you have to control your shots as well. "Overhaul" is not the point - when Brett came to the US in 2016, he spent a lot of time getting Dan to stop hooking the ball. Dan was already a 2000 level player in leagues then. You need to line up your racket with the ball before coming forward. You currently come forward from a backswing position that isn't lined up with the ball - it is going to hurt your consistency and control when you have less time to adjust.

That said, if your goal is to hook the ball on most shots when you are out of position, please ignore me.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

What are you try to argue here? I posted a video of me being inconsistent and commented how mickd looked more stable. I don't think I'd bother to post a video where I looked perfect at a shot.

So far the advice is for me to push with my right leg, line up my shot so I don't use side spin, take the ball at or before the top or before the top of the bounce and hit flatter. I'm sure someone said to do a shorter stroke. That's always there.

That the list if things you have can be called an overhaul. And they are hard enough that it will be interesting to see your progress.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus