OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I spoke to an Olympic boxing coach recently. We talked a lot about training in our respective sports and I grilled him pretty hard on the advantages/disadvantages of using a heavy bag (punching bag) to train boxing. I said that bags don't hit back, so is there any benefit in using one? I also asked about shadow-boxing and the speed bag.

A heavy bag in boxing is the equivalent to a robot in TT, or something like it. The coach talked about using a bag to improving technique and power as part of a balanced training plan. Clearly, the bag is only one part of boxing training but, if used right, it can contribute to overall performance. He said that it is good to work on punching technique without the distraction of someone punching back at you.

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The ITTF just posted Waldner vs Yan Sen with an April Fool's prelude. MAn, it shows you how advance Waldner's forehand was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KTRFwh ... paN4AaABAg

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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Brett, did you talk with him about tactics?

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Tactics Enthusiast

Hahahaha, that question actually made me laugh out loud. Funny enough, he has never mentioned tactics to me because he's too busy showing me how technique has evolved since the 70s and breaking down training plans.

What I might do to him, at some stage, is sign him up to a boxing forum and watch him get hammered by the regular members. Now that would be entertaining stuff!!! He'd probably beat the crap out of me after a couple of days, so I need to think about it.

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If you choose the right tactics, you can win!

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Since you all seem to have lots of time to waste, here are three recent training videos where I try to take the ball earlier and shorten my strokes. There are about 4 to 5 drills per video.

https://youtu.be/xxedPryWAbk (forehand drills)
https://youtu.be/fylqt8i_byY (backhand drills)
https://youtu.be/xcAaKsF7GT4 (transition and random drills)

In the last video, the drills with the grey T-shirt are not random, while the drills with the black t-shirt are random placement including balls to the middle.

No editing skills, and since you have nothing to do other than discuss the tactical skills you lack, feel free to point out all my mistakes.

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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

The best part is, if I had to clearly define my day job in 2 words, I'd say...Table Tennis Tactician. Or is that 3 words? I never know.

Anyway, Laj, what you are doing is good. If you are going to be that close, you need fast and efficient body movements which are still correct. Correct means that your body is propelling your arm a good percentage. I see that happening even though it's hard to see if you don't know what you are looking for. I'm personally hypersensitive to good/bad technique because I'm so tactically unaware. It's like blind people have superior hearing etc.

The moment you move away from the table, define those movements as much as possible to work on power. Small and efficient movements don't cut it once you get back. Furthermore, using larger and more powerful movements will secure your smaller close to the table movements too.

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Ah.. 21 point games and hidden serves...

I missed the entire Waldner era - one of those years-long gaps where I'd quit playing. Those hidden serves were a shock when I started playing again, fortunately most people at my level didn't know about them but the first time I hit around with this new guy who was rated about 2000... WHAT DID HE DO??

Iskandar

Yes Iskandar, those were the days. In games up to 21 you could tell a story and exploit your opponent's weakness through non-stop attrition. You could try stuff and not pay the ultimate price if it didn't quite work out. You didn't lose games to people because they got two edges and you served a fault. There was way less pressure on every point because the game was long like chess. It wasn't till 19-19 that the mentally weak crumbled. And then beating someone 21-0 really meant something.

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True! I wonder how fast he can run.

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The 21 points I wouldn't mind at all.. In fact I know people who still play to 21 points (the word hasn't gotten around yet to every corner of the world). But I don't know if I'd like to go back to the 38mm ball and the hidden serves, though. Lots of serve return errors in that game.





Comparing these two and a few other videos. Wilkinru ends the stroke with the elbow straight, I think a lot of the power comes from the straightening of the arm through the unbending of the elbow. Harimoto, on the other hand, ends the stroke with the elbow bent. He's rotating his forearm around the elbow. Is this simply a matter of a longer follow-through in the case of Wilkinru? Harimoto's doing backhands at a much faster rate, so maybe he's deliberately curtailing the follow-through. I suppose I was taught to unbend my elbow on the backhand, that's the way I do it.

Iskandar

IT might sound nuts to you but Brett defines the stroke less by the arm movement and more by the body movement used to facilitate it. Just saying.

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I told Russ from the very beginning that his body is right and I've only ever really mentioned his arm movement. Please read back over the last 7 pages. I start with the wrist thing and then told him to swing lower.

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When I look at that video, I'm seeing 2 distinct backhands happening. At the start where the elbow stays bent and the whole motion is small and circular. Later when he gets an easier ball his elbow doesn't stay bent and the motion is more up and down with the body. Watch his left arm. You can see it slowly becoming more and more engaged as he begins to "push" more.



I've very much been trying to get the feeling of pushing down on the ball. Sometimes it happens. I'm going to give myself a few more days of practice and record again. I know drifting off is bad and I should be watching my stroke every 3 minutes but I like to see if I can figure something out. For some reason this stroke is really challenging for me to fully do.

I've also been experimenting with looping backspin without opening my wrist. The motion is almost all body. I don't think there is any way I can generate the same spin but consistency might be considerably higher. The backhand backspin loop used to be my main weapon but lately I'd rather just have a open up I can trust.

So I'm wrong? The arm movement and the body movement are equally important?

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"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus