OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Evening folks,

The one serve I don't have in my repertoire is a long, fast, no-spin serve. I can serve no spin on a short serve (backspin serve but contact the ball near handle, and a slower motion)... but anything long gets spin on it.

I can so this beautifully, and easily, with LPs... but is there a way of doing it with inverted?

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
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From a pendulum serve its as simple as aiming for a topspin serve and hitting the label with lots of contact.

I find the serve easier and more effective coming off a reverse pendulum.

From the backhand side I actually use it as a variation of my reverse tomahawk serve. Most people expect side or a short backspin but smacking the ball into the label works for me.

It's much harder with a backspin motion because you can't get as much contact of force. So there are three different ways you can achieve a long no-spin serve.

Oh. BTW try to hit close to the edge of your side of the table and a lower contact facilitates a better serve.

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-Teddy

This article might help, "Fast No-Spin Serves to the Middle." This serve is best "free" point winner - I've been doing this for about 39 years (with inverted) and get an incredible number of free points.
http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/node/2138

The pertinent part for you:

"Now you’re ready for the real point-winner – a fast no-spin to the elbow. There’s only one difference between this and a regular fast topspin serve: at contact, instead of putting topspin on the ball, you hit the ball with a very slight downward motion. Don’t think heavy backspin; it’s more of a glancing downward blow to put a little backspin on the ball. If you serve no-spin, after two bounces on the table the ball has topspin. To truly deaden it, you need a little backspin at the start."

-Larry Hodges

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I find it easiest to do this from a Pendulum serve as well, just like tabesamis describes.

Interesting point about the ball accumulating topspin as it bounces Larry... makes sense.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
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Just serve backspin long but do not slice the bottom of the ball - come down on the back off the ball.. If you hit the back of the ball or pulled upwards, you would get topspin (pulling upwards is heavier) and if you went under, backspin, but the slight downward motion gives backspin that is too light to do anything but dissipate by the time the ball gets to the other side. The topspin vs. no spin combo is pretty useful as well.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Thanks gents, I'll give this a go once I get my table back in use. It's currently locked in place by downstairs furniture as we await decoration of our lounge...

_________________
[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, Butterfly Joo Saehyuk, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)
Full list (PM me for price): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xNLwjz5uZq_FcCowBgZ4zk1NwU83xVyCRoo0zhphu3w/edit?usp=sharing
==================================================================================================================================================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg

I'd probably listen to Larry. I learned this serve from one of his books. Maybe the slight downward motion is why the reverse pendulum is the motion I find easiest for this serve. Never actually conceptualized that I was moving slightly downward but makes perfect sense.

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-Teddy

Agree. I always think of the no spin serve as a very light underspin serve. Then you can vary it by not going under the ball and giving a low topspin serve...or go a litter heavier under the ball and get a low underspin serve. Lots of room to improvise.

I don't think it matters that much exactly that spin is on the ball anyway. When it's fast and flat and catches then by surprise it tends to work well most of the time anyway.

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OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Re-Impact Blades | Butterfly Table Tennis bats
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I think it is a key to make it look like your other serves. It also helps to show an ability to make heavy underspin (or at least enough to make someone net a ball if they are not paying enough attention) to setup the no-spin. for this fast/deep serve, I think it helps to make it look like topspin and placement is another key.

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"Now you’re ready for the real point-winner – a fast no-spin to the elbow. There’s only one difference between this and a regular fast topspin serve: at contact, instead of putting topspin on the ball, you hit the ball with a very slight downward motion. Don’t think heavy backspin; it’s more of a glancing downward blow to put a little backspin on the ball. If you serve no-spin, after two bounces on the table the ball has topspin. To truly deaden it, you need a little backspin at the start."

-Larry Hodges


I'm really surprised at how effective this is
I have been using this serve since I read it here on the forum and it has been getting me points.

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Current set-up
Stiga Offensive Classic
FH DHS Sanwei T88-I max
BH XIOM Sigma I Europe 2mm

I'm definitely going to add this serve to my bag of serves. I've often been at the receiving end of these against one particular player and as Larry said, I often mistake for topspin and hit into the net. Really annoys me.

That raises the question. What is the best way to deal with these serves, particularly the wide ones.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Joola Rhyzm 425 2.0mm ,BH Donic Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm

I do this serve from my regular pendulum motion and I find a low contact, close to the table edge first bounce with a forward and slightly downward motion is best. As has already been mentioned in the thread, I just wanted to add to the consensus. I tend to use my wrist a little more to flick into the ball for a more solid contact.

As to how to receive this ball I always advise to step back and accept the ball then loop it. I always assume that this flat ball is going to have a slight about of backspin and treat it as such. If its heavy top it wont be so flat in the bounce as a no-spin long serve. You will also be able to see the service motion change for the top-spin long serve in most cases if you watch the contact of the ball on bat.

If you find you are getting caught, step back to receive, its always easier to move into a short ball then it is to move back to accept a long ball. It also has the benefit of giving you more time to react and get the ball.

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CORNILLEAU Hugo Calderano FOCO OFF+
FH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1
BH: ANDRO Hexer Powergrip 2.1

Loop them. Practicing looping against them and you will have a better idea of what is possible and it will expand your understanding of looping. To quote myself again: if you only know how to loop with one swing trajectory and one kind of racket angle/contact on the ball, you will struggle to get better at this game.

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Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Actually, just to correct myself, i don't mistake them for topspin as i do recognise the no spin but because they come in quick my brain doesn't adjust and i play them as though they are topspin.

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Donic Waldner Senso V1,FH Joola Rhyzm 425 2.0mm ,BH Donic Baracuda Big Slam 2.0mm