OOAK Table Tennis Forum

It's been interesting to read some of the old posts from as recent as 2019 and 2020. What's changed?

First, it seems like the "plastic ball" situation seems to have sorted itself out. At least, on the table tennis forums, you don't see anyone complaining about "plastic balls" anymore. I'm sure there are many who would prefer to use the old celluloid ball if given the choice, but they aren't saying much about it these days. I'm sure there are still people who look back fondly upon the era of the 38mm ball, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence of them online. The dominant ball at this time seems to be the seamed ABS ball. Most of these seem to be coming out of the Minkow factory in Shanghai - they make the popular DHS balls, as well as a lot of the ABS balls sold under different brands. This means that most brands out there are the exact same ball as the DHS. The only other factory I'm aware of that makes ABS 40+ balls is the one making Double Fish V40+ balls - I'm not at all sure it's a different factory but there was a different factory back when we were using celluloid 40mm balls. The ABS balls have even taken over the "rec" market - more on this later. ABS balls last practically forever, in contrast to that interim material that was in use for a short while, cellulose acetate - just a few years ago there were vociferous complaints about how quickly the cellulose acetate balls would develop cracks.

The polyurethane seamless ball seems to have dropped off the radar. I don't know where these were made, but they don't seem to be available any more. Looking through the ITTF list of approved balls, there are a few brands that still have a seamless ball (together with a seamed ball), but I suspect these are legacy listings - they'll disappear in a year or two. Even Kingnik (yes, they're around - Kingnik is Minkow's house brand) no longer has a seamless option - their only ball listed is an ABS seamed ball. The PU seamless balls had one major flaw - they bounced sideways more than other balls do when there's sidespin. Probably good for people who've developed a kicking serve, annoying for others.

Orange balls are very much available now, and have been for a while. Where I play, there is a lot of glare, and white surfaces - what I find works best in those situations are the dual colored balls DHS sells. They don't have a three star rating and are not ITTF approved, but that is because they don't conform to the rules, not because they're of lesser quality. These are the same balls they use (or used to use) in the China Super League, after all. They do also cost a little less than the DHS three star balls. Yes, under some circumstances, you can also see the spin on the ball - not that it seems to matter, though.

Now, this is the interesting part. I recently came across a RM2 shop (it's actually a RM2.40 shop now - inflation, you know..) that had table tennis balls. Real cheap - RM2.40 for a half dozen. That's about USD0.10 per ball. A third of the price of my favorite DHS bi-color balls. Whenever I see cheap balls I'll buy a box - they make great cat toys. Unfortunately they only come in orange.



https://shopee.com.my/Qnexx-Table-Tenni ... (6pcs-pack)-AB-L005-T05-07-i.251957706.20950192571?sp_atk=a3215f5c-4fe7-46c4-9d52-42aa9fdb51fc&xptdk=a3215f5c-4fe7-46c4-9d52-42aa9fdb51fc

What's this?? It's ABS! I took some to where we play, and we played with them for a whole evening, and I couldn't tell the difference between them and the DHS balls. Exact same bounce. Some of the people I play with are really particular about balls - and they didn't complain about these. Checking Shopee, there are a ton of strange-brand ABS "training" balls for sale (though none as cheap as this) - brand names include Regail and Huieson. Where do these come from? I'll bet they're from Minkow. Have a look at Minkow's website - it's changed since I looked at it last. They sell all sorts of ABS balls of various grades, I'll bet they make lots of private label stuff for all manner of companies, aside from the ITTF approved stuff. And from this limited sample I speculate that they've gotten pretty good at making these balls. Back during the 40mm celluloid ball era I used a lot of the Double Fish one star balls - they seemed every bit as good as the three star ones. Probably a similar situation exists these days. To sell balls that are rated "three star", they put the balls through some sort of testing. Probably weigh them, and then they'd use a roll deviation test. Probably others, too, like a bounce test. The balls that pass are labeled three stars, the rest get sold as "training balls". What happens, though, if 97 or 98% of all the balls you make pass the test? There won't be enough low quality balls to sell to the rec market or to sell as training balls. So what do you do? You sell balls that have NOT been tested to the rec market. They're significantly cheaper, since testing costs money. But 97% of them are as good as any three star ball. Again, this is based on a tiny sample, I'll have to try other off brands from other sources to see if this is generally true. Maybe I'll weigh a bunch, and see if I can detect any difference in bounce.

Iskandar

People get used to all situations, even war. That doesn't make it fertile soil for human development (in this case equal to the development of the sport). I've seen players with no technique getting "better" and technical players getting "worse". I bet with a 42mm ball they'll even become better.

Meanwhile, in reality, the table tennis crowd in my country is declining since the corona crisis. The rankings in my country are de-evaluating. If the sport was so enticing because of the longer rallies the ITTF promised us, the sport would have recovered in the meantime.

Off course like everything else the pendulum will swing the other way, I suspect within a decade or so, when humankind has gotten back their senses and start to understand that every proposal of change, wrapped in a nice package, by people who only care about money and power only means more money out of their pockets.

But looking at the bright side of things: the ITTF finally found the correct camera angle to film a table tennis game. That makes me feel sincerely blessed.

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I don't know about this "technical" business, but I'll have to say these days I find myself and others around me improving quite a bit. It used to be lots of mistakes, these days we can keep attack vs. attack rallies going much longer. It is easier to control the ball overall. Whether this has anything to do with the 40+ ABS ball I don't know - maybe it's just that we've played for a longer period of time and have gotten used to playing against each other. Stuff like long pips don't bother any of us much any more (I'd say about 70% of the group uses them). We've also gotten a much better 25mm table. If by "technical" you mean people who use different surfaces to "disrupt" play, I don't see why the rules or equipment should favor them over anyone else - if they find it harder to "disrupt", then so be it. They should develop other skills, such as their own attacks, twiddling and attacking from both sides, etc.

Iskandar

The answer to the ball situation in 2023 is quite obvious . Those loopers who complained of the lack of spin are so happy with the tremendous success of their boosters.They work wonders!!! Been told by high ranked defenders that it is impossible to get so much spin and speed from this new plastic ball.Nontheless,they come across lots and lots of opponents with unbelievable spin and speed .
This should stop . Those who understand the technical side of this sport will clearly notice the looper is doing something illegal just by starting to pay attention to the super spinny serves.This high amount of rotation is just impossible with legal combos .

Who is still interested in boosters? Haven't seen ANYONE post anything about boosters for years! It's sort of a long dead beaten to death topic, much like "flexible" blades. It's been discussed to death, and it's NOT a new phenomenon. Either you use them or you don't, no one's mixing up their own stuff anymore, once in a while ITTF makes some noises about cracking down on them, but they're still available, from the likes of TT11 no less. No longer do you have to go to some sketchy Chinese website to find the National Team Black Seamoon Booster:

https://www.tabletennis11.com/other_eng ... black-60ml

They've gone mainstream. And they're apparently boring. I've got four different types of booster sitting around, I haven't touched them in years because - well, they didn't add 50 points to my rating. It's a non-issue. It's just that hard rubbers like Hurricane 3 are NOT USABLE at the top levels of the sport without them. The people who use them don't seem invincible, if they were, EVERYONE would be using them.

Iskandar

These balls are only cat grade, though..

https://shopee.com.my/Vanguard-Table-Te ... -(6pcs-Box)-White-Orange-i.44751085.13592603788



Almost no bounce. The ad says ABS, no way to know if they are.

Iskandar

This is a series of short clips showing ball testing. Some of this seems plagiarized from older videos. I came across this video in an ad somewhere - probably Shopee - for Huieson balls. Being a "off brand" ball that isn't ITTF certified, I wonder if they're actually subjected to these tests. This is the only brand other than DHS (and Minkow) that sells the bi-colored balls, which is a clue that Minkow makes them.

If you haven't visited the Minkow website in a while, have a look:

http://www.minkow.com.cn/Balls

38mm and 44mm ABS balls even (and they've still got celluloid balls for Bingo... )

Iskandar

It's hard to believe they test all the balls, although China does have the people (and cheap labour) to do it.

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I think they do test the 3 star balls, though it's perhaps a lot more automated these days. Everything else gets a cursory look (maybe they take samples out of each batch). I'm pretty sure they don't test the balls they make for grocery store chains. Still, if they're coming out of the same factory they'd have the same characteristics, though you'd probably find some odd balls now and then.

Maybe the DHS DJ40+ are subject to extra strict testing... I can't imagine they're made from different materials or made using different tools.

Incidentally, this is worth watching, even though they don't test Double Fish and Butterfly balls.



Upshot - it was easy to tell the seamless balls from the others, they liked the Nittaku and balls the best but the other ABS balls were all really good. The difference between the DHS D40+ and DJ40+ is very slight if anything. Checking their web site - there are still 2-3 different brands of seamless ball being sold, everything else has a seam and is presumably ABS.

Iskandar

You will surprise but people still talking about boosters. Example:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/ ... ews.32139/

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/ ... ion.32142/

THE BOOSTER ISSUE STILL UNSOLVED INSIDE THE SPORT.

ITTF has now reduced manpower of EQC and suspended all the anti-boosting works. The Rule 3.4.2.2 still remains in force


Newly elected EQC Chair is a lady of Lebanon, it is a bad time for her, I guess.

My condolences. You must be in tears over this..

Iskandar

Oh sure, there are a few people still discussing boosters, but not like before. And definitely not on THIS forum. The above two links seem to be newbies asking about boosters in general. No mad scientists talking about using baby oil or eucalyptus oil etc. (wouldn't that make your bat stink to high heaven? ) It's like the constant posts by newbies in the Equipment section asking about which racket or rubber to buy - you will ALWAYS get posts like that.

I've sort of come to the conclusion that the whole subject (like a lot of stuff in table tennis) is full of mumbo jumbo and little in the way of hard facts. Do boosters affect rubber? Sure. Rubber, in general, swells and softens when in contact with oils, solvents and other sundry organic compounds, this makes them faster and perhaps stickier. Combine this with the stretching of the topsheet when you flatten out the "burrito", you end up with "catapult" effect. Maybe this is even the secret behind "catapult" rubbers like Tenergy - the difference is it's done at the factory before it ends up being bought by the end consumer. Does it actually help players play better? Sure. Which is why everyone on the CNT supposedly does it. Doesn't help that the rubber they like to use (Hurricane 3) is unusable to them UNLESS it's boosted. Is it illegal? Of course! (See Igor's post..) Why doesn't anyone do anything about it? Do what? Ban it? It's already banned. The problem is enforcing the ban - it's rather difficult to do in the first place (how does one test for it?) and there seems to be very little will to do it in any case - major table tennis vendors even feel it's OK to openly sell it. Why has discussion of boosting died down compared to 7-15 years ago? Because it's essentially boring - everything's been done before, and it's just become another S.O.P. Discussion will (as you can see in the above) devolve into is Booster A better than Booster B, and why, and here's where it descends into fuzziness and mumbo jumbo. Someone will say "I tried both, A is better", but there's no actual evidence - no high speed camera footage, no actual RPM measurements, no actual definition about what "better" means, even. Not to mention the same ground has been covered before numerous times in the past and everyone has either chosen what they want to use and kept using it or they've quit boosting altogether.

Oh gee.. this has turned into a S-jan - like screed.

Iskandar

We settled to play DHS DJ40+ as tournament standard.

DHS DJ40+ balls are expensive, and recently (built after autumn 2022) become fragile. I want to find cheaper substitute for DJ40+ but unsuccessfully so far.

DHS D40+ feels rather different and less pleasant. Other ABS 40+ balls feel lighter and even more different to DJ40+, so anybody refuse to play them.

I wonder if these are for real...

https://shopee.com.my/Nittaku-Butterfly ... 4598156227





RM40 is about USD8.50 - for 60 balls in a plastic jar. The writeup says they're "celluloid".

Iskandar