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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 02:58 
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Just curious if any other low friction OX LP users feel that their play style is 'lame'? :rock:

I've been using the low friction stuff for quite a while now, and doing better than ever. Win rate has shot up through the roof almost out of nowhere, and I'm taking down players who previously I thought were a good deal beyond my skill level.

My problem is, even though I'm technically "chopping" the ball 90% of the points, I don't feel like I'm actually doing much! I win through basic consistency, placement and speed changes. The chops with the OX LP are essentially all low spin or no spin, unless someone sends over a really heavy loop. And I just stand there, BOP BOP BOP, sending the ball back over and over - not caring about the spin or whatnot. The chops are short little cut motions for the most part, where the OX LP are more or less only guiding the ball back over the net. I'm not changing the spin or doing anything magical... just hitting it back on the table. All I have to do is keep it long.

And even though I'm winning, it almost feels "too easy" or like a hollow victory. A part of me sympathizes with all those whiners complaining about pips being junk and anyone can use them :lol:

Well, of course it takes skill and touch to keep returning the ball... but even so, the whole style feels so goofy to me dinking it back over and laughing when they miss. It works up until about the 1800+ level from my experience. And around then, they can loop a lot and get into the fun chop/loop rallies. But for people under that, which is more of the average, the games just look SO BAD :D ... comically bad. Because they're afraid to hit the ball or attack, we look like a couple of 600 rated geezers going at it - and I keep it going, because I love their expressions of disgust when they finally miss, then rant me to afterward about not being used to pips.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 06:30 
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I'm quite new to LP (using 0.5mm so not OX) but I'm facing four basic kind of opponents:
A) The type you describe who are a bit scared of LP or simply doesn't loop.
B) Players with LP
C) Players with SP or MP
D) Players who can loop anything. It doesn't matter if this is well trained 12 year olds or pretty good old farts like myself

This is how it usually goes:
A) This is getting easier all the time. Either I attack with the LP or I just mix chopping, pushing and hitting with the odd FH inverted loop. Quite easy to win as I put more balls on the table.

B) Also quite easy. I think that I've done right to focus on fairly simple LP drills where I get my partner to loop, I block, he pushes and I hit the incoming backspin. Most other LP players I meet heavily rely on their inverted FH so I can quite easily outlast them in games that probably look like hardbat game to people who don't understand LP. I've recently won against some LP players that probably are 2100+ if my translation of Swedish TTA ratings to USATT is correct.

C) A disaster. Haven't figured this out yet. I think my ratio right now is about 2-2 during tournament but I mainly attribute the wins to luck to a certain degree.

D) It doesn't really matter if I loose or not. I always have a great time. I love chopping great loops. This is why I play table tennis.


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 10:53 
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Nah it's not lame. The variety of equipment, playing styles and tactics is what makes table tennis interesting and challenging. Players who are not used to playing against LP (or anti) can find it frustrating but with practice and commitment and a bit of coaching can learn how to adjust. Higher level players know what to expect and I get few easy points off them.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 14:32 
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It's even worse when you get two of them playing against each other... :lol: As you say, no one dares attack, they don't even dare push, the rallies devolve into bumping matches. LAME. :lol: In the group I play in, maybe a year ago several decided to take up long pips (and one person continued to use bare wood on his penhold reverse, just like he's been doing for 30 years..). So there was a long period where the games were very lame indeed. It's gotten a lot better, though - these days everyone attacks against the long pips, and it doesn't bother anyone any more. And that includes the couple of double inverted players left.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 14:57 
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"It works up until about the 1800+ level.." with your current skill level. I've watched 2100+ rated players with plenty of service and offensive firepower intersperse similar passive LP tactics to great effect.


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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 15:13 
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That's not exactly what he said, though. He said that above 1800 level the opponents start looping consistently so instead of dinking until the opponent misses, he starts chopping loops instead.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 16:01 
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iskandar taib wrote:
It's even worse when you get two of them playing against each other... :lol: As you say, no one dares attack, they don't even dare push, the rallies devolve into bumping matches. LAME. :lol: In the group I play in, maybe a year ago several decided to take up long pips (and one person continued to use bare wood on his penhold reverse, just like he's been doing for 30 years..). So there was a long period where the games were very lame indeed. It's gotten a lot better, though - these days everyone attacks against the long pips, and it doesn't bother anyone any more. And that includes the couple of double inverted players left.

Iskandar


Such goofy stuff, isn't it!

I'm the only one using LP in my area, so they try bumping it back with the inverted. And I don't think they can out bump or out push me... points go on and on. If I want to end them a bit earlier, I have a pretty good forehand loop kill and will blast it by them if it pops up too high.

I won a recent tournament, and kind of for the fun of it I stayed resolute in the pushing/bumping game. Watching back some of those videos brought tears of laughter to my eyes! The way they were playing, with such god awful high pop ups and floats, along with missed smashes and air whiffs... I just stand there bumping it back like a moron until they botch an easy shot.

Well, at least I'm not the only one who knows the joys of endless bump rallies :rock:

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 16:12 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
...
I'm the only one using LP in my area, so they try bumping it back with the inverted. And I don't think they can out bump or out push me... points go on and on. If I want to end them a bit earlier, I have a pretty good forehand loop kill and will blast it by them if it pops up too high.

I won a recent tournament, and kind of for the fun of it I stayed resolute in the pushing/bumping game. ...


Can you remind us what is your level? In my experience people around USATT 1700+ no longer can be fooled by simple reversal and already have decent idea hot to play against LP, especially if they don't see LP for the first time ever.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 16:13 
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You must be a good bumper.

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 16:15 
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nathanso wrote:
"It works up until about the 1800+ level.." with your current skill level. I've watched 2100+ rated players with plenty of service and offensive firepower intersperse similar passive LP tactics to great effect.


Yeah, I think Iskandar covered that part. Against the higher rated people, I'm forced to actually chop which is what I enjoy doing.

I'm kind of torn between playing more of a Liu Song style of forehand power and the occasional BH chop/chop-block... or sticking with the OX LP bop games and forehand chops. Or even focus on a push-blocking game with opportunistic FH attacks when they play too passively. Like that Jerry D. fellow in the recent thread.

Overall, I find it humorous. At first I was annoyed people wouldn't attack, but then I changed my mindset and really focused on beating them down with the LP. Even if it was ugly, just the fact that they couldn't overpower me was a real blow to their egos -- when all I'm doing are the 'lame' shots at them :D

I know you can use the same style at 2000+ levels, but you actually have to be more precise and accurate with your shots. During some of my games, I'll just announce mid-point "Here comes a high one, take a swing at it!" and send over a floating ball that lands deep on the table... which they then proceed to kill straight into the net or 10 feet off the end of the table :lol:

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PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 16:21 
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pgpg wrote:
skilless_slapper wrote:
...
I'm the only one using LP in my area, so they try bumping it back with the inverted. And I don't think they can out bump or out push me... points go on and on. If I want to end them a bit earlier, I have a pretty good forehand loop kill and will blast it by them if it pops up too high.

I won a recent tournament, and kind of for the fun of it I stayed resolute in the pushing/bumping game. ...


Can you remind us what is your level? In my experience people around USATT 1700+ no longer can be fooled by simple reversal and already have decent idea hot to play against LP, especially if they don't see LP for the first time ever.


In the 1700s-1900s range depending on the style I play at the time.

I wouldn't say they're being 'fooled' by the long pips, but I'm just very consistent about returning the ball. Even if they hit a smash or something, I'm pretty good at anticipating the angle and being there to LP chop/block it back. I don't feel like I'm tricking them, so much as I'm out-consistencing them. They've started referring to me as "The Wall" :headbang: and don't particularly enjoy playing with me as a result!

I dont think my shots are that great or difficult either, which is kind of my point. I do basic little dinky hits over and over until they miss. My chops dont have much variety and dont seem too difficult on my end. I try to vary the placement to their weaker areas, but beyond that not much else

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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 22:16 
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What are your LP? There are no "real" frictionless LP out there-tho there is some variation in how much friction they have.


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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2019, 01:31 
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vanjr wrote:
What are your LP? There are no "real" frictionless LP out there-tho there is some variation in how much friction they have.



Low friction for the current LP's. I'm using the joola cwx right now, which has more friction than d.tecs but not a ton more.

I find people make more mistakes against it than most any other I've used. Real high reversal is too predictable, and too much grip (fl3, curl p4, etc.) kills off the 'weirdness' of returns. So for whatever reason, every time I use the CWX people have tremendous difficulty against it even on basic blocks.

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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2019, 02:04 
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I really need to work on my LP consistency close to the table - it went all downhill lately. Must be doing something wrong...

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PostPosted: 13 Jun 2019, 07:15 
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pgpg wrote:
I really need to work on my LP consistency close to the table - it went all downhill lately. Must be doing something wrong...


A great drill IMHO is to get a willing training partner to loop/drive at a moderate pace, you block/chop block to his BH, he pushes, you hit to his FH. Repeat. Not super advanced but I do this for 5-10 minutes during most sessions and I think that it dramatically increases the security in my LP strokes. The tempo usually increases naturally after a few minutes.

(I’m by no means a close to the table player but I think that this drill is extremely beneficial and most training partners are quite keen as it increases their “feel” against LP. Win win. )


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